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	<title>Comments on: A FALL SONG FOR EVERY EVENTUALITY</title>
	<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2010/05/20/a-fall-song-for-every-eventuality/</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2012 09:08:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: sonofstan</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2010/05/20/a-fall-song-for-every-eventuality/#comment-73298</link>
		<author>sonofstan</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 May 2010 12:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2010/05/20/a-fall-song-for-every-eventuality/#comment-73298</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;2/ the irony of African music having been ripped off by a couple of bands of upper-middle class US grad- students in the last couple of years… &lt;/i&gt;

Indeed...vampire by name, vampire by...

Actually, in that case I think Haircut 100 have more cause to feel aggrieved than anyone else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>2/ the irony of African music having been ripped off by a couple of bands of upper-middle class US grad- students in the last couple of years… </i></p>
<p>Indeed&#8230;vampire by name, vampire by&#8230;</p>
<p>Actually, in that case I think Haircut 100 have more cause to feel aggrieved than anyone else.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Baite</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2010/05/20/a-fall-song-for-every-eventuality/#comment-73295</link>
		<author>Sean Baite</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 May 2010 10:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2010/05/20/a-fall-song-for-every-eventuality/#comment-73295</guid>
		<description>No problem SoS - not taking it personal or even seeing it as a rant. 
More a well-informed comment from someone more implicated in it all than meself.
I stand guilty of being a bit 'Western' in outlook alright.
Fair cop - I should know better than expose my fuzzy logic to heatstruck philosophers of a Friday (has it crept above 15 again up there ?).
Didn't realise I was being that condescending towards African musical production. I wasn't really thinking of African music as marketed in the west (those labels you mention would appear to be perpetrating downright theft) but of the commercial realities of African music in Africa since the 70s say - musicians only able to make a living out of live performance due to the only recordings available for sale (within Africa) being dodgy bootlegs with eff-all royalties coughed up (cassettes then CDs). This type of diffusion of music is even the main one for Black African/Maghrebin music here in France (as to be seen at any flea market). Due I suppose to western labels having left a vacuum by signing up less and less artists - especially Maghrebin. Where lies the cause and effect though ?
The situation worldwide now, thanks to the whole MP3 thing - is becoming virtually the same. Are artists going to have to go back to depending solely on live performance to survive ?? Not that that's necessarily feasible.
As to Furry Lewis - ta for the details on his 'royalty recuperation' system. As an analogy to DO - where we have the most MP3s up would be the 'Great Irish Bands' series. So far none of the bandmembers involved have struck any deals with us involving body parts against royalties. Touch wood. We've had a few of them on as commentors on some of the posts and I don't think any of them consider our having screwed them by putting up their work. Even if IMRO might think otherwise (on behalf of their labels).
Anyway, I'll stop digging now - enough fuzzy logic to fill a couple of graves.
Just a few last frivolous comments :
1/ your mentioning the early bluesmen and Mali in the same comment makes me wonder if Ali Farka Toure's famous assertion that he'd never heard the American blues before he began recording was nothing more than a ruse to avoid paying up ??
2/  the irony of African music having been ripped off by a couple of bands of &lt;i&gt;upper-middle class US grad- students&lt;/i&gt; in the last couple of years... 

And what would poor Tommy Potts have made of all this ??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No problem SoS - not taking it personal or even seeing it as a rant.<br />
More a well-informed comment from someone more implicated in it all than meself.<br />
I stand guilty of being a bit &#8216;Western&#8217; in outlook alright.<br />
Fair cop - I should know better than expose my fuzzy logic to heatstruck philosophers of a Friday (has it crept above 15 again up there ?).<br />
Didn&#8217;t realise I was being that condescending towards African musical production. I wasn&#8217;t really thinking of African music as marketed in the west (those labels you mention would appear to be perpetrating downright theft) but of the commercial realities of African music in Africa since the 70s say - musicians only able to make a living out of live performance due to the only recordings available for sale (within Africa) being dodgy bootlegs with eff-all royalties coughed up (cassettes then CDs). This type of diffusion of music is even the main one for Black African/Maghrebin music here in France (as to be seen at any flea market). Due I suppose to western labels having left a vacuum by signing up less and less artists - especially Maghrebin. Where lies the cause and effect though ?<br />
The situation worldwide now, thanks to the whole MP3 thing - is becoming virtually the same. Are artists going to have to go back to depending solely on live performance to survive ?? Not that that&#8217;s necessarily feasible.<br />
As to Furry Lewis - ta for the details on his &#8216;royalty recuperation&#8217; system. As an analogy to DO - where we have the most MP3s up would be the &#8216;Great Irish Bands&#8217; series. So far none of the bandmembers involved have struck any deals with us involving body parts against royalties. Touch wood. We&#8217;ve had a few of them on as commentors on some of the posts and I don&#8217;t think any of them consider our having screwed them by putting up their work. Even if IMRO might think otherwise (on behalf of their labels).<br />
Anyway, I&#8217;ll stop digging now - enough fuzzy logic to fill a couple of graves.<br />
Just a few last frivolous comments :<br />
1/ your mentioning the early bluesmen and Mali in the same comment makes me wonder if Ali Farka Toure&#8217;s famous assertion that he&#8217;d never heard the American blues before he began recording was nothing more than a ruse to avoid paying up ??<br />
2/  the irony of African music having been ripped off by a couple of bands of <i>upper-middle class US grad- students</i> in the last couple of years&#8230; </p>
<p>And what would poor Tommy Potts have made of all this ??</p>
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		<title>By: sonofstan</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2010/05/20/a-fall-song-for-every-eventuality/#comment-73277</link>
		<author>sonofstan</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 17:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2010/05/20/a-fall-song-for-every-eventuality/#comment-73277</guid>
		<description>Sorry, bit of a rant - put it down to heatstroke....nothing personal</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, bit of a rant - put it down to heatstroke&#8230;.nothing personal</p>
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		<title>By: sonofstan</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2010/05/20/a-fall-song-for-every-eventuality/#comment-73275</link>
		<author>sonofstan</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 15:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2010/05/20/a-fall-song-for-every-eventuality/#comment-73275</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;You’re mebbe a bit Western-centered there though SoS. Artists outside the so-called ‘developed’ world having being getting by with shoddy or non-existent royalties collection for decades. Just think of African music, for ex. Is music from these places restricted to upper middle-class amateurs as a result ? Or any less vibrant ?&lt;/i&gt;

Mebbe being a bit western -centred there yourself....African musicians get ripped off all the time of course, but I doubt if they mind any less than their counterparts here or in the US. Assuming they continue on their vibrant way without suffering might just be an effect of distance - and not understanding what they're singing about. 

Further to that too, there's been a lot of debate on various music blogs about the ethics of labels like Mississippi, Subliminal Frequencies, and others - about the deliberate exoticism of the packaging and lack of info, obscuring the fact that often no effort has been made to locate the owners of masters dubbed off dusty 7"s. Africa may be dark, but they have telephones and the internet and stuff.....

Put it another way: the first recorded bluesmen got by 'with shoddy or non-existent royalty payments for decades' - and as a class they died young, in barroom fights, or went back to manual work after the recording boom of the 20s ended with the depression. Furry Lewis was regarded as a virtual aristocrat among his peers because he had a meagre pension from the city of Memphis, thanks to his missing leg. And when young and eager white folklore collectors would come to record him, he would make sure his guitar was in the pawnshop so they'd have to redeem it - that way, at least, he got some payment for sharing his 'culture' - because his young acolytes saw it as 'folk' music, and therefore not really his - he was the mere conduit through which the great tradition poured - but he was a conduit who liked his whiskey, and also one who had a justifiably high opinion of himself as an artist: he was a pro - folksingers were a class well below. 

Mali may be  bit different, but I wouldn't imagine the position of West African urban musicians varies that much from that of Furry in his later years - and westerners singing the praises of a vibrant folk culture that's so different from the debased commercialism of pop music in the developed world might ring a little hollow... 

Of course, astonishing music gets made despite everything all the time - but I think we need to be careful not to mythologise the circumstances of its creation to much - Robert Johnson's life makes  great story, but I'm sure he's have liked the option of a secure and revered old age. Adorno once said something to the effect that it is a short step from admiring the humour and resilience of the downtrodden workers to admiring the conditions that made them thus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>You’re mebbe a bit Western-centered there though SoS. Artists outside the so-called ‘developed’ world having being getting by with shoddy or non-existent royalties collection for decades. Just think of African music, for ex. Is music from these places restricted to upper middle-class amateurs as a result ? Or any less vibrant ?</i></p>
<p>Mebbe being a bit western -centred there yourself&#8230;.African musicians get ripped off all the time of course, but I doubt if they mind any less than their counterparts here or in the US. Assuming they continue on their vibrant way without suffering might just be an effect of distance - and not understanding what they&#8217;re singing about. </p>
<p>Further to that too, there&#8217;s been a lot of debate on various music blogs about the ethics of labels like Mississippi, Subliminal Frequencies, and others - about the deliberate exoticism of the packaging and lack of info, obscuring the fact that often no effort has been made to locate the owners of masters dubbed off dusty 7&#8243;s. Africa may be dark, but they have telephones and the internet and stuff&#8230;..</p>
<p>Put it another way: the first recorded bluesmen got by &#8216;with shoddy or non-existent royalty payments for decades&#8217; - and as a class they died young, in barroom fights, or went back to manual work after the recording boom of the 20s ended with the depression. Furry Lewis was regarded as a virtual aristocrat among his peers because he had a meagre pension from the city of Memphis, thanks to his missing leg. And when young and eager white folklore collectors would come to record him, he would make sure his guitar was in the pawnshop so they&#8217;d have to redeem it - that way, at least, he got some payment for sharing his &#8216;culture&#8217; - because his young acolytes saw it as &#8216;folk&#8217; music, and therefore not really his - he was the mere conduit through which the great tradition poured - but he was a conduit who liked his whiskey, and also one who had a justifiably high opinion of himself as an artist: he was a pro - folksingers were a class well below. </p>
<p>Mali may be  bit different, but I wouldn&#8217;t imagine the position of West African urban musicians varies that much from that of Furry in his later years - and westerners singing the praises of a vibrant folk culture that&#8217;s so different from the debased commercialism of pop music in the developed world might ring a little hollow&#8230; </p>
<p>Of course, astonishing music gets made despite everything all the time - but I think we need to be careful not to mythologise the circumstances of its creation to much - Robert Johnson&#8217;s life makes  great story, but I&#8217;m sure he&#8217;s have liked the option of a secure and revered old age. Adorno once said something to the effect that it is a short step from admiring the humour and resilience of the downtrodden workers to admiring the conditions that made them thus.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Baite</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2010/05/20/a-fall-song-for-every-eventuality/#comment-73272</link>
		<author>Sean Baite</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 08:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2010/05/20/a-fall-song-for-every-eventuality/#comment-73272</guid>
		<description>SoS &lt;i&gt;Is Conor an ex-member of the Fall?!&lt;/i&gt; I believe that, at the last count, 63% of humanity is an ex-member of the Fall.
Glad to hear that IMRO are keeping yerself in Rhinestone plectrums or almost 90% of the cost of your replica Bohs shirt every year (or whatever ye spend it on). Was sceptical about them being &lt;i&gt;redistibutionist&lt;/i&gt; as you put it so well - you re-assure me somewhat.
Yep, how bands and musicians are to earn their crust under the current model (or disintegrating model) is a tricky circle to be squared - and it ain't me is going to come up with the way how.
You're mebbe a bit Western-centered there though SoS. Artists outside the so-called 'developed' world having being getting by with shoddy or non-existent royalties collection for decades. Just think of African music, for ex. Is music from these places restricted to upper middle-class &lt;i&gt;amateurs&lt;/i&gt; as a result ? Or any less vibrant ?
Also have to laugh at IMRO's seemingly arbitrarily chosen threshold of blogs earning under 7,000 EUR though (for imposition of some sort of two-tier licencing fee on blogs). Have we gotten in the auditors yet, Donagh and Conor - to see how many euros short we are ???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SoS <i>Is Conor an ex-member of the Fall?!</i> I believe that, at the last count, 63% of humanity is an ex-member of the Fall.<br />
Glad to hear that IMRO are keeping yerself in Rhinestone plectrums or almost 90% of the cost of your replica Bohs shirt every year (or whatever ye spend it on). Was sceptical about them being <i>redistibutionist</i> as you put it so well - you re-assure me somewhat.<br />
Yep, how bands and musicians are to earn their crust under the current model (or disintegrating model) is a tricky circle to be squared - and it ain&#8217;t me is going to come up with the way how.<br />
You&#8217;re mebbe a bit Western-centered there though SoS. Artists outside the so-called &#8216;developed&#8217; world having being getting by with shoddy or non-existent royalties collection for decades. Just think of African music, for ex. Is music from these places restricted to upper middle-class <i>amateurs</i> as a result ? Or any less vibrant ?<br />
Also have to laugh at IMRO&#8217;s seemingly arbitrarily chosen threshold of blogs earning under 7,000 EUR though (for imposition of some sort of two-tier licencing fee on blogs). Have we gotten in the auditors yet, Donagh and Conor - to see how many euros short we are ???</p>
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		<title>By: Donagh</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2010/05/20/a-fall-song-for-every-eventuality/#comment-73263</link>
		<author>Donagh</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 16:48:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2010/05/20/a-fall-song-for-every-eventuality/#comment-73263</guid>
		<description>Yeah, Google can tricky...


&lt;object width="480" height="385"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xS_MauJshXU&#038;hl=en_GB&#038;fs=1&#038;"&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xS_MauJshXU&#038;hl=en_GB&#038;fs=1&#038;" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt; 

Good luck with the move Conor....and sorry for even more Fall Videos</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, Google can tricky&#8230;</p>
<p><object width="480" height="385">
<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xS_MauJshXU&#038;hl=en_GB&#038;fs=1&#038;"></param>
<param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param>
<param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xS_MauJshXU&#038;hl=en_GB&#038;fs=1&#038;" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object> </p>
<p>Good luck with the move Conor&#8230;.and sorry for even more Fall Videos</p>
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		<title>By: sonofstan</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2010/05/20/a-fall-song-for-every-eventuality/#comment-73260</link>
		<author>sonofstan</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 14:53:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2010/05/20/a-fall-song-for-every-eventuality/#comment-73260</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Posted in De-centralisation, Ex Members of Fall, music &#124; No Comments »&lt;/i&gt;
Is Conor an ex-member of the Fall?!  respeck..

Re; Imro - as well as keeping CdB in Green Ink and Bono in Grecian 2000, they do pay me about 50 quid a year in respect of songs that never get played on the radio- and I'm sure thousands like me get a few bob every now and then as a derisory token acknowledgement of a misspent youth.....

More seriously, as people began to think of music as something that's just 'there' like TV, and not something you have to pay for, the question of how the fuck musicians are meant to earn a living becomes more pressing - it's not an accident that a fair proportion of new rock music seems to be produced by upper-middle class US grad- students who can afford to treat being in a band as they would an internship. And to be fair, Imro, the PRS and the rest, are relatively un-corrupt and even redistributionist to an extent. 

Not that going after blogs, which, as radio used to, probably stimulate record sales, is the way to go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Posted in De-centralisation, Ex Members of Fall, music | No Comments »</i><br />
Is Conor an ex-member of the Fall?!  respeck..</p>
<p>Re; Imro - as well as keeping CdB in Green Ink and Bono in Grecian 2000, they do pay me about 50 quid a year in respect of songs that never get played on the radio- and I&#8217;m sure thousands like me get a few bob every now and then as a derisory token acknowledgement of a misspent youth&#8230;..</p>
<p>More seriously, as people began to think of music as something that&#8217;s just &#8216;there&#8217; like TV, and not something you have to pay for, the question of how the fuck musicians are meant to earn a living becomes more pressing - it&#8217;s not an accident that a fair proportion of new rock music seems to be produced by upper-middle class US grad- students who can afford to treat being in a band as they would an internship. And to be fair, Imro, the PRS and the rest, are relatively un-corrupt and even redistributionist to an extent. </p>
<p>Not that going after blogs, which, as radio used to, probably stimulate record sales, is the way to go.</p>
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