Comments on: UNLIKELY RADICALS: IRISH POST-PRIMARY TEACHERS AND THE ASTI, 1909-2009, by John Cunningham http://dublinopinion.com/2010/03/25/unlikely-radicals-irish-post-primary-teachers-and-the-asti-1909-2009-by-john-cunningham/ It's a group blog. What more do you need to know? Thu, 24 May 2012 04:16:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 By: Conor McCabe http://dublinopinion.com/2010/03/25/unlikely-radicals-irish-post-primary-teachers-and-the-asti-1909-2009-by-john-cunningham/#comment-72550 Conor McCabe Sat, 27 Mar 2010 23:29:27 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2010/03/25/unlikely-radicals-irish-post-primary-teachers-and-the-asti-1909-2009-by-john-cunningham/#comment-72550 Well the book is called "unlikely radicals", not "radicals", so not sure what point you're making there Gar. Are you criticising the book for tacitly agreeing with Noel Browne's assessment? Well the book is called “unlikely radicals”, not “radicals”, so not sure what point you’re making there Gar. Are you criticising the book for tacitly agreeing with Noel Browne’s assessment?

]]> By: Gar http://dublinopinion.com/2010/03/25/unlikely-radicals-irish-post-primary-teachers-and-the-asti-1909-2009-by-john-cunningham/#comment-72549 Gar Sat, 27 Mar 2010 23:01:36 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2010/03/25/unlikely-radicals-irish-post-primary-teachers-and-the-asti-1909-2009-by-john-cunningham/#comment-72549 Radical secondary school teachers in Ireland? Noel Browne dismissed the teachers of Ireland as 'docile'. I'd say the real radicals in Irish education these last few decades were the parents who opted to become homeschoolers and kept their children out of the system. Radical secondary school teachers in Ireland? Noel Browne dismissed the teachers of Ireland as ‘docile’. I’d say the real radicals in Irish education these last few decades were the parents who opted to become homeschoolers and kept their children out of the system.

]]> By: sonofstan http://dublinopinion.com/2010/03/25/unlikely-radicals-irish-post-primary-teachers-and-the-asti-1909-2009-by-john-cunningham/#comment-72543 sonofstan Fri, 26 Mar 2010 19:21:03 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2010/03/25/unlikely-radicals-irish-post-primary-teachers-and-the-asti-1909-2009-by-john-cunningham/#comment-72543 Conor @ comment 2 Spot on. Conor @ comment 2

Spot on.

]]> By: Conor McCabe http://dublinopinion.com/2010/03/25/unlikely-radicals-irish-post-primary-teachers-and-the-asti-1909-2009-by-john-cunningham/#comment-72542 Conor McCabe Fri, 26 Mar 2010 18:33:36 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2010/03/25/unlikely-radicals-irish-post-primary-teachers-and-the-asti-1909-2009-by-john-cunningham/#comment-72542 Thanks very much John for the comment and the link. It's a great read and as I said in the review I really enjoyed the look at class relations in Ireland. It's not the principal part of the book by any means - it is a commissioned history of a trade union and so of course the ASTI is to the fore - but it was great to see class discussed with such intelligence and insight. Thanks very much John for the comment and the link. It’s a great read and as I said in the review I really enjoyed the look at class relations in Ireland. It’s not the principal part of the book by any means - it is a commissioned history of a trade union and so of course the ASTI is to the fore - but it was great to see class discussed with such intelligence and insight.

]]> By: John Cunningham http://dublinopinion.com/2010/03/25/unlikely-radicals-irish-post-primary-teachers-and-the-asti-1909-2009-by-john-cunningham/#comment-72541 John Cunningham Fri, 26 Mar 2010 18:12:40 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2010/03/25/unlikely-radicals-irish-post-primary-teachers-and-the-asti-1909-2009-by-john-cunningham/#comment-72541 Thanks for the very comprehensive review, Conor. I'm flattered. Here's a link to an excerpt from one of the chapters, which was published in ICTU's Union Post before the book appeared http://www.ictu.ie/publications/fulllist/union-post-november-2009-issue-2/ Thanks for the very comprehensive review, Conor. I’m flattered. Here’s a link to an excerpt from one of the chapters, which was published in ICTU’s Union Post before the book appeared
http://www.ictu.ie/publications/fulllist/union-post-november-2009-issue-2/

]]> By: Donagh http://dublinopinion.com/2010/03/25/unlikely-radicals-irish-post-primary-teachers-and-the-asti-1909-2009-by-john-cunningham/#comment-72540 Donagh Fri, 26 Mar 2010 17:54:11 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2010/03/25/unlikely-radicals-irish-post-primary-teachers-and-the-asti-1909-2009-by-john-cunningham/#comment-72540 Great review Conor, and also thanks to the largess of CUP (even though I think we’re doing them a favour) :) It reminded me too of a conversation I had recently with a former Vice Principal of a secondary school and member of ASTI. He said that in the school he worked in the Board of Management decided to ask each candidate they interviewed if they’d be willing to join a union. If they weren’t then they didn’t get the job. They always said yes apparently. Great review Conor, and also thanks to the largess of CUP (even though I think we’re doing them a favour) :)

It reminded me too of a conversation I had recently with a former Vice Principal of a secondary school and member of ASTI. He said that in the school he worked in the Board of Management decided to ask each candidate they interviewed if they’d be willing to join a union. If they weren’t then they didn’t get the job. They always said yes apparently.

]]> By: LeftAtTheCross http://dublinopinion.com/2010/03/25/unlikely-radicals-irish-post-primary-teachers-and-the-asti-1909-2009-by-john-cunningham/#comment-72538 LeftAtTheCross Fri, 26 Mar 2010 11:35:49 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2010/03/25/unlikely-radicals-irish-post-primary-teachers-and-the-asti-1909-2009-by-john-cunningham/#comment-72538 Conor, excellent review. That book sounds like a suitable birthday present for my wife :-) Sean, the modern day equivalent to the clergy would be the growth in numbers of staff on temporary and part-time contracts, desperate to work under whatever terms are dictated by their employers. To take up Conor's point on third-level academics, that lack of tenure permeates the education system at all levels. On the up side, there is the possibility that such an imbalance of power in that allegedly professional employer/employee relationship could have the effect of radicalising this section of the "middle class", and eventually awaken some sense of proletarian class consciousness. Someday maybe... Conor, excellent review. That book sounds like a suitable birthday present for my wife :-)

Sean, the modern day equivalent to the clergy would be the growth in numbers of staff on temporary and part-time contracts, desperate to work under whatever terms are dictated by their employers.

To take up Conor’s point on third-level academics, that lack of tenure permeates the education system at all levels.

On the up side, there is the possibility that such an imbalance of power in that allegedly professional employer/employee relationship could have the effect of radicalising this section of the “middle class”, and eventually awaken some sense of proletarian class consciousness. Someday maybe…

]]> By: Sean Baite http://dublinopinion.com/2010/03/25/unlikely-radicals-irish-post-primary-teachers-and-the-asti-1909-2009-by-john-cunningham/#comment-72536 Sean Baite Fri, 26 Mar 2010 09:17:51 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2010/03/25/unlikely-radicals-irish-post-primary-teachers-and-the-asti-1909-2009-by-john-cunningham/#comment-72536 Who's the clergy then in your parallel between current day third level academics and lay second-level teachers in the past ?? :-) Who’s the clergy then in your parallel between current day third level academics and lay second-level teachers in the past ?? :-)

]]> By: Conor McCabe http://dublinopinion.com/2010/03/25/unlikely-radicals-irish-post-primary-teachers-and-the-asti-1909-2009-by-john-cunningham/#comment-72535 Conor McCabe Fri, 26 Mar 2010 08:44:06 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2010/03/25/unlikely-radicals-irish-post-primary-teachers-and-the-asti-1909-2009-by-john-cunningham/#comment-72535 In many ways the experience of non-tenured third level academics today is similar to that of secondary school teachers back then. Low-wage, insecure and temporary employment, but one saturated with middle class pretensions. College tutors and lecturers rarely join unions these days for fear of 'pissing off' their employer/ future employer, but they also have this idea that unions aren't for them. No wonder they get fucked around then. They make it easy. In many ways the experience of non-tenured third level academics today is similar to that of secondary school teachers back then. Low-wage, insecure and temporary employment, but one saturated with middle class pretensions. College tutors and lecturers rarely join unions these days for fear of ‘pissing off’ their employer/ future employer, but they also have this idea that unions aren’t for them. No wonder they get fucked around then. They make it easy.

]]> By: Sean Baite http://dublinopinion.com/2010/03/25/unlikely-radicals-irish-post-primary-teachers-and-the-asti-1909-2009-by-john-cunningham/#comment-72534 Sean Baite Fri, 26 Mar 2010 08:29:14 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2010/03/25/unlikely-radicals-irish-post-primary-teachers-and-the-asti-1909-2009-by-john-cunningham/#comment-72534 From the photo - I thought the post was going to be about a pub five-a-side football team :-) Very interesting review though Conor. The contrast between the public view of the lay teacher here in France and in Ireland as conveyed in the book prior to the introduction of free secondary education would almost leave me weeping. In essence, they were little more than semi-officialised hedge school teachers going by the parts of the book you quote. Had also forgotten the luxury that secondary education was in the Republic - even for the generation of our parents. I don't think there was even a proper scholarship or grants system for promising pupils from outside the middle class catchment group (as there was in the North - as adverted to in Hugh Green's recent posts where he talks of the Eleven-plus and its 'Grammar School Generation'). I'm sure Donal will be along any minute now to add his tuppenceworth from down Wexford way.. From the photo - I thought the post was going to be about a pub five-a-side football team :-)
Very interesting review though Conor. The contrast between the public view of the lay teacher here in France and in Ireland as conveyed in the book prior to the introduction of free secondary education would almost leave me weeping.
In essence, they were little more than semi-officialised hedge school teachers going by the parts of the book you quote.
Had also forgotten the luxury that secondary education was in the Republic - even for the generation of our parents. I don’t think there was even a proper scholarship or grants system for promising pupils from outside the middle class catchment group (as there was in the North - as adverted to in Hugh Green’s recent posts where he talks of the Eleven-plus and its ‘Grammar School Generation’).
I’m sure Donal will be along any minute now to add his tuppenceworth from down Wexford way..

]]>