RYAN COMMISSION REPORT, QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS, 25 MAY 2009
May 28th, 2009 by Conor McCabe
The quote below is taken from wilklnott.ie
“Michael O’Brien, former councillor and Mayor of Clonmel attended the RTÉ programme Questions and Answers on 25 May 2009 and, after Minister Noel Dempsey, the sponsoring minister of the Ryan Commission report in to Child Abuse allegations spoke, Mr O’Brien spoke to the minister and to the panel.”
From the Irish Times:
“Mr O’Brien was a resident of St Joseph’s Industrial School in Clonmel, which was run by the Rosminian order, during the 1940s and he said he was sexually and physically abused there. He said that he and seven other members of his family were removed from their house before being sent to industrial schools. He was reunited with his brother on the Late Late Show some 40 years later. Mr O’Brien said he had voted for Fianna Fáil since he was 18, but that the party’s behaviour around the issue of child abuse was turning him away from it. He served as a councillor for the party in Tipperary and was elected mayor of Clonmel in 1993.”
A transcript of Mr. O’Brien’s comments is available below, also from the Irish Times.
MICHAEL O’BRIEN’S COMMENTS ON ‘QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS‘:
“Mr Chairman, I am surprised at the Minister now. First of all Minister you made a bags of it in the beginning by changing the judges. You made a complete bags of it at that time because I went to the Laffoy Commission and ye had seven barristers there questioning me, telling me that I was telling lies when I told them that I got raped of a Saturday, got an merciful beating after it and he then came along the following morning and put Holy Communion in my mouth. You don’t know what happened there . You haven’t the foggiest. You’re talking through your hat there, and you are talking to a Fianna Fáil man, and a former councillor and a former mayor that worked tooth and nail for the party that you are talking about now. You didn’t do it right. You got it wrong. Admit it and apologise for doing that because you don’t know what I feel inside me. You don’t know the hurt I have.
You said it was non-adversarial. My God, seven barristers throwing questions at us non-stop. I attempted to commit suicide, [turning to his wife] there’s the woman who saved me from committing suicide on my way down from Dublin after spending five days at the commission . They brought a man over from Rome – 90 odd years of age – to tell me I was telling lies and that I wasn’t beaten for an hour non-stop by two of them from head to toe without a shred of cloth on my body. My God, Minister.
[Turning to Fine Gael TD Leo Varadkar] Can I speak to you and ask your leader to stop making a political football out of this. You hurt us when you do that. You tear the shreds from inside our body. For God’s sake, try and give us some peace, try and give us some peace, and not continue hurting us.
[Turning to his wife]
That woman will tell you how many times I jump out of bed at night with the sweat pumping out of me because I see these fellows at the end of the bed with their fingers pulling me into the room to rape me, to bugger me and to beat the shite out of me. That’s the way it is, and sometime, you know what, I listen to the leader of Fianna Fáil. I even listened to the apology. It was mealy-mouthed but at least it was an apology. The Rosminians said in the report that they were easy on us. The first day I went there, the first day I went to the Rosminians in my home which is Ferryhouse in Clonmel, the only home I know, he said you’re in it for the money. We didn’t want money. We wanted someone to stand up and say ‘yes these fellows were buggered, these people were robbed’.
Little girls, my sister, a month old when she was put into an institution, eight of us from the one family were dragged by the ISPCC cruelty man, put into two cars and brought to the court in Clonmel. We were left standing there without food or anything and the fellow in the long black frock and white collar came along and he put us into a scut-truck and landed us below with 200 other boys. Two nights later I was raped.
How can anyone, you’re talking about the Constitution, these people would gladly say yes to a Constitution to freeze the funds of the religious orders. This State, this country of ours will say yes to that Constitution if you have to change it.
Don’t say you can’t change it. You are the Government of this State. You run this State. So, for God’s sake, stop mealy-mouthing because I am sick of it. You are turning me away from voting Fianna Fáil, which I have done from the day I could vote.
You know me Minister and you have met me on several occasions, so you know what I am like. Remember Wexford?”
What a narrow minded, insular, parochial and cowardly society
we are.
many more people must have known about this at the time. neighbours, teachers, people making deliveries to the ’schools’… why did nobody speak out before? a terrible injustice was done to these children who had nobody to speak up for them.
Ruth, I share your anger. The bitter truth, though, is that people DID speak out about this, at least at the start, but very quickly those who spoke out were labeled as troublemakers or they were ignored. People knew about all of this but the problem was that if you did make a fuss, you became the problem, not the abusers. The guards did nothing. The doctors did nothing, and the politicians did nothing. Ruth, the chiurch ran this society, full stop. Their power was hugely significant and not to be challenged by busybodies or other such individuals.
also, this wasn’t happening to children from middle class families. The systematic rape and murder exposed by the Ryan commission was known about for decades, but it was the systematic rape and murder of children from working class families. and nobody in power gave a flying fuck about them.
Here’s one example, just to show that people knew about it, and also to show that even when people protested, nothing was done by the judges, police, and political class.
http://dublinopinion.com/2007/12/09/the-mere-sight-of-you-sickens-me/
Irish Justice Ministers, 1932-1994. Why didn’t they do something about this?
Kevin O’Higgins
W. T. Cosgrave
James FitzGerald-Kenney
James Geoghegan
P. J. Ruttledge
Gerald Boland
Seán Mac Eoin
Daniel Morrissey
Gerald Boland
James Everett
Oscar Traynor
Charles Haughey
Seán Lemass (acting)
Brian Lenihan, Snr
Micheál Ó Móráin
Desmond O’Malley
Patrick Cooney
Gerry Collins
Jim Mitchell
Seán Doherty
Michael Noonan
Alan Dukes
Gerry Collins (2nd time)
Ray Burke
Pádraig Flynn
Máire Geoghegan-Quinn
I heard Michael O’Brien’s impassioned comments yesterday on NPR here in San Francisco, CA. His words brought me to tears as I drove in the car with my two year old, Declan. How could anyone hurt a child I thought, let alone be be so viscious as to ruin in everyway, as these priests did, a child who depends on him for his safety. To the survivors of the horrendous abuse, please know that people all over the world care deeply about you. If any of the degenerate priests are still living I truly hope they will be brought to justice. And I hope to God there’s a hell so the sanctimonious, hypocritical, godless animals who ran the chuch and tortured those children will rot in it forever.
please read these questions as a point of view from a survivor of industrial schools they are not ment to be attacking anyone just plain honest questions to very needed answers and doings of what is right by survivors.
these questions will never go away because we are left very unsure to what is happening to us as we were then we are today, in great need for the truth after all we have been through we deserve much better than the sordid deals we have gone through so far. i cannot just say in the past but still going through the same abuse today.
we were separated from society then to suit the system then so why not separate us from the mainstream society and answer these questions now. by supporting survivors to suit their expectations now.
regarding the ryan report there are so many questions unanswered.
if there is an apology to survivors after admitting the wrong doings of the ryan report then these questions need answering without white washing they are simple questions.
1.who decided to agree to the three year terms of applying to the commission and redress and why, some people out there are trying to protect their families and need time to come forward, why the rush. no one was interested throughout the YEARS we spent in these schools.
2. why cant the survivors be asked themselves to how the government and religious orders can help them personally.
3. why and who decided to set up educational and counseling funds on behalf of the survivors and say the tax payers are paying. while and when if you are on the dole or disability you are entitled to ether or even both. and that the tax payer already pays for those institutions.( almost all survivors are tax payers too) yet the survivors are only sent forms to fill in still not knowing the difference which form is which, or what grant is what. we have to try and rely on survivor groups who are saying they are only survivors themselves we need to contact the education board themselves if any questions. huh.
4. why not look at the number of people immediately affected such as in housing, debt, family crises, and so on.
5. wouldn’t it be fair to say they the survivors have already paid very well into the taxes throughout their childhood, with all the very very hard work they had to produce every single day in those institutions as innocent children.
6. wouldn’t it be fair to say that those in insecure rented accommodation be it private or council homes be excepted from the main stream increases as to make life finally a bit more manageable. do you not think this would be cheaper and an honest way to help those who really need it as survivors who find it very hard to cope through no fault of their own.
7. medical cards should be automatically given to the survivors so they can afford their health problems.
8. why cant pensions also be set in place and an early retirement be set up if they need to since they worked from a very tender age of six or even younger..
9. where are those social helpers who can help survivors with difficulties with forms and so on even the traveling communities have them. they can help the survivors now and properly too. to make sure they get all their entitlements.
10. family resource centers should be a consideration as they ARE experienced to handle these matters.
11. why do community welfare ask a lot of questions regarding redress money like for instance did you receive redress, how much redress have you got left and so on then decisions be made accordingly and can be proven.
12. why cant larger clothing grants be allocated to survivors as they are still in rags.
13. should traveling passes be given to them as freedom to move from the day they were in captivity.
14. why were pennies given to the survivors in ireland and real money in america paid out to their survivors.
15. was ireland one of the richest in europe at the time of the redress mm i wonder.
16. the redress settlements were paid out before the ryan report came out, this only makes sense if one knows how bad the situation can be so to save money it was done as such.
normally all facts would have to be gathered firstly just as in all the institutions of ireland then and only then a decision would be made on all the information given. with all the statements is’ent obvious what was going on now.
17. why, how many schools a survivor was in, not taken into consideration properly.
18. moving a child from one school to another is dramatic enough for a child to cope with so how can a child be forced to name names of previous people in schools they have been in when they constantly are living in fear of the collar in front of them because of the experiences behind them.
second chance was mentioned by a survivor support group in cork city yet the same group leader said you cannot claim from each school why not? and who agreed to such nonsense has been unfair to those survivors. so much for some survivor support groups. huh.
19. why is there no mention of children put into these institutions who were international citizens such as english with english birthcerts, a whole area OVERLOOKED by all trusted offices including the ryan report and the redress board. there was no mention of this in the media also not to their fault.
and racial discrimination was not also taken into account either.
20. if christian brothers, nuns, priests, deacons, bishops and popes are servants of god then what god is their leader that such things were allowed and they live like the rich who will not inherit the kingdom of god as they preached themselves. they have homes, plenty to eat, clothing, black clothing at that not white for purity. money, new cars and so on even today on the handouts of the people who trusted that the money was going to the needy. something smells very bad here.
21. please sort out these questions as they need answering and properly taken care of on behalf of those who suffered a life time. other wise how can a great country like ireland be trusted ever again. a great thank you to all who stood and stand by us survivors in these dark days, and may you who stand bring us into the light where we can be proud of this country and its people. saying you did your best to put the wrongs right.
22. the religious orders should pay towards these areas as they said themselves we are your family now. so do as you are told or else. this is the only way
23 i believe, never mind saying the tax payer would have to pay to amend the redress bill in question as it is very very wrong, a total disgrace to the irish people, and country as a whole, how pennies were yet again thrown down into the orphans face and told to go away. it was very cheap, dirty, cunning and just another insult to the same pain as before.
the bill has to be amended. and any money or dealings with the religious orders should be handed down to those who are struggling most in our society the men and women who still suffer from the trusted peers.
the government before the brake said it would cost the tax payer (that word again used like a scrubbing brush ) too much to amend the bill, well i say the pope should pay the bill to be amended if he is a man of god and leader of the irish church, if not then may the real god protect and serve us. after all both state and church are wanting to join hands in running schools today. well clean up first i say clean up and sort out the disgusting mess created by the very same. if you build your house on sand will it not sink? push rubbish under a carpet will it not become a mountain?.
the only ones that have been supported by this bill are those as usual the rich who can afford the educational, counseling fees now do not have to pay if you look at this mess the poorer need to use the pennies to survive. counciling is used just to cope today because of the pressure of living life is in the way of dealing with the past as it was the past that caused all the problems today. while all the men and women are alive today, so are the children we are here just as the government and church is here today so make allowances for the true support of these people. never mind using the tax payer as a scrubbing brush the vatican is the richest church in the world probley richer than ireland.
hi i was in st josephs kilkenny sisters of no charity gave my evidence to the comission ,the nuns priests christian brother s were cruel bullies who prayed on innocent children and every one of them covered for each other ! as we all well know alot were moved about when found out ,brothers and sisters were kept apart god almighty just when they needed each other the most , alone in these hell holes i feel that they should all be defrocked and thrown out of the church as they are not holy people we know we lived it ! hitler would have been proud of the lot of them ! all this should have been looked into years ago ! we had no where to turn and no one to listen did we? better to keep quiet not any longer so hold up your hands and admit what you unholy people did ,and all the secrets that you hid ,ireland should hold its head in shame for what it did to us all of us used as skivys and slaves in more ways than one ,and to live for the rest of our lived with the nightmares and flash backs ,and the saddest though of all we cannot reclaim our childhood or innocence !i no longer go to church said enough prayers to last a life time an no one answered them did they ?one of my friend once said that we have haunted eyes very true
by the wat did you ever see a skinny nun ? or priest ? eating berries from a tree and being sick because of hunger ,falseley inprisoned at 3 months old ! some older some younger for what crime ? you know what about the mothers and fathers who walked away .lack of duty to care we should sue our own parents for neglect !and why was the girl always a whore ? takes two to tango and alot were raped and it hushed up the mind boggles !i am sure that god would not have wanted us to go through such a terriable life , would he ? so ireland wake up and do your best to put things right for the sake of today and tomorrows children and at least give some children a chance to be happy and loved .