Comments on: GEORGE LEE: WHAT A MUPPET http://dublinopinion.com/2009/05/22/george-lee-what-a-muppet/ It's a group blog. What more do you need to know? Wed, 23 May 2012 12:37:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 By: Tim http://dublinopinion.com/2009/05/22/george-lee-what-a-muppet/#comment-70229 Tim Sun, 31 May 2009 22:56:55 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2009/05/22/george-lee-what-a-muppet/#comment-70229 Conor, I love "Whitesnake"; thanks. Conor, I love “Whitesnake”; thanks.

]]> By: Mark C http://dublinopinion.com/2009/05/22/george-lee-what-a-muppet/#comment-70204 Mark C Sun, 24 May 2009 10:04:42 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2009/05/22/george-lee-what-a-muppet/#comment-70204 <a href="http://vimeo.com/4772829" rel="nofollow">GEORGE LEE</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/davedonnellan" rel="nofollow">Dave Donnellan</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com" rel="nofollow">Vimeo</a>. GEORGE LEE from Dave Donnellan on Vimeo.

]]> By: Conor McCabe http://dublinopinion.com/2009/05/22/george-lee-what-a-muppet/#comment-70197 Conor McCabe Fri, 22 May 2009 21:34:03 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2009/05/22/george-lee-what-a-muppet/#comment-70197 Sorry trift. I didn't mean to piss you off. I know you were only ribbing me. Sorry trift. I didn’t mean to piss you off. I know you were only ribbing me.

]]> By: Thrifty http://dublinopinion.com/2009/05/22/george-lee-what-a-muppet/#comment-70196 Thrifty Fri, 22 May 2009 21:23:47 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2009/05/22/george-lee-what-a-muppet/#comment-70196 I'm not suggesting the 'third way'. I'm not proposing any concrete solution. I am suggesting that the semantics of the current dichotomy are possibly now limiting the systems capability to move beyond a tug of war and consider other solutions. Third way is just spin to sell the same old concepts to people otherwise ideologically incapable of accepting them. Now, I seem to have got up your nose more than I meant to so I shall leave it at that. I’m not suggesting the ‘third way’. I’m not proposing any concrete solution. I am suggesting that the semantics of the current dichotomy are possibly now limiting the systems capability to move beyond a tug of war and consider other solutions. Third way is just spin to sell the same old concepts to people otherwise ideologically incapable of accepting them. Now, I seem to have got up your nose more than I meant to so I shall leave it at that.

]]> By: Conor McCabe http://dublinopinion.com/2009/05/22/george-lee-what-a-muppet/#comment-70195 Conor McCabe Fri, 22 May 2009 18:13:33 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2009/05/22/george-lee-what-a-muppet/#comment-70195 Ok. so, a way of addressing the severe economic imbalances which grow out of the extraction of surplus value in modern capitalist economies that won't involve tackling the economic power base of the right which is dependent on the extraction of surplus value in those modern capitalist economies through the rotation of finance, nor one that involves tackling the inherent contradictions of that right-wing economic system - namely constant expansion while at the same time limiting the purchasing power of those who need to consume in oder to keep the machine moving - while in terms of the left a new way of tackling same that doesn't involve trade union organisation coupled with a political movement which will act as a bulwark against the right with regard to the kidnapping of the full resources of the state by the right in order to protect private capital against its own contradictions. That's one of the funny things about right-wing political parties in modern capitalist economies. Their job is to gain political power in order to protect business against itself, against the damage caused by the inherent contradictions of capitalist dynamics. At the moment that's exactly what it is doing. so yeah, go for a third way, but unless you're looking at the exploitations and contradictions which arise at the point of production (typically, a left-wing stance), or at the problems raised when we assume that exploitations and contradictions arise at the point of consumption (typically, a right-wing stance), then whatever you come up with is completely ignoring the structural problems of modern capitalist economies. Left and right aren't models, they're stances within the system itself. They are as structural as M-C-M. Ok. so, a way of addressing the severe economic imbalances which grow out of the extraction of surplus value in modern capitalist economies that won’t involve tackling the economic power base of the right which is dependent on the extraction of surplus value in those modern capitalist economies through the rotation of finance, nor one that involves tackling the inherent contradictions of that right-wing economic system - namely constant expansion while at the same time limiting the purchasing power of those who need to consume in oder to keep the machine moving - while in terms of the left a new way of tackling same that doesn’t involve trade union organisation coupled with a political movement which will act as a bulwark against the right with regard to the kidnapping of the full resources of the state by the right in order to protect private capital against its own contradictions.

That’s one of the funny things about right-wing political parties in modern capitalist economies. Their job is to gain political power in order to protect business against itself, against the damage caused by the inherent contradictions of capitalist dynamics. At the moment that’s exactly what it is doing.

so yeah, go for a third way, but unless you’re looking at the exploitations and contradictions which arise at the point of production (typically, a left-wing stance), or at the problems raised when we assume that exploitations and contradictions arise at the point of consumption (typically, a right-wing stance), then whatever you come up with is completely ignoring the structural problems of modern capitalist economies.

Left and right aren’t models, they’re stances within the system itself. They are as structural as M-C-M.

]]> By: Thriftcriminal http://dublinopinion.com/2009/05/22/george-lee-what-a-muppet/#comment-70194 Thriftcriminal Fri, 22 May 2009 17:05:42 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2009/05/22/george-lee-what-a-muppet/#comment-70194 errrrrrrr, no, not them. That'd be just spin. Sure Tony blair only believes in right anyway, right? errrrrrrr, no, not them. That’d be just spin. Sure Tony blair only believes in right anyway, right?

]]> By: Conor McCabe http://dublinopinion.com/2009/05/22/george-lee-what-a-muppet/#comment-70193 Conor McCabe Fri, 22 May 2009 16:19:46 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2009/05/22/george-lee-what-a-muppet/#comment-70193 That's true, there's Tony Blair's "third Way", or Bill Clinton's "Third Way", or George Lee's recent statement that there is no left or right, just "common sense".... that's another way I suppose. That’s true, there’s Tony Blair’s “third Way”, or Bill Clinton’s “Third Way”, or George Lee’s recent statement that there is no left or right, just “common sense”…. that’s another way I suppose.

]]> By: Thriftcriminal http://dublinopinion.com/2009/05/22/george-lee-what-a-muppet/#comment-70191 Thriftcriminal Fri, 22 May 2009 15:38:03 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2009/05/22/george-lee-what-a-muppet/#comment-70191 Nice :-) Nope, totally agree with you there, but fancied a stir. No, I'd like to see political parties that have arisen from a paradigm other than "lets fuck each other over seeing as we just stopped getting fucked over by another country". I'm also unsure about the shelf life of the whole left/right model. There are many ways to slice things, that's just one. Nice :-) Nope, totally agree with you there, but fancied a stir.

No, I’d like to see political parties that have arisen from a paradigm other than “lets fuck each other over seeing as we just stopped getting fucked over by another country”.

I’m also unsure about the shelf life of the whole left/right model. There are many ways to slice things, that’s just one.

]]> By: Conor McCabe http://dublinopinion.com/2009/05/22/george-lee-what-a-muppet/#comment-70188 Conor McCabe Fri, 22 May 2009 10:46:18 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2009/05/22/george-lee-what-a-muppet/#comment-70188 Soooo, are you telling me that you believe there's a difference between Fianna Fail and fine Gael? That's there's any choice between right-wing FF and right-wing FG? It's just that if you're suggesting anti-fine gael means pro-fianna fail, it would suggest that you believe that there's some kind of "choice" between fianna fail and fine gael. I'm not judging, by the way. just curious. Soooo, are you telling me that you believe there’s a difference between Fianna Fail and fine Gael? That’s there’s any choice between right-wing FF and right-wing FG? It’s just that if you’re suggesting anti-fine gael means pro-fianna fail, it would suggest that you believe that there’s some kind of “choice” between fianna fail and fine gael.

I’m not judging, by the way. just curious.

]]> By: Thriftcriminal http://dublinopinion.com/2009/05/22/george-lee-what-a-muppet/#comment-70187 Thriftcriminal Fri, 22 May 2009 10:31:47 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2009/05/22/george-lee-what-a-muppet/#comment-70187 Soooo, are you saying you are pro-FF? I'm not judging, just curious. Soooo, are you saying you are pro-FF? I’m not judging, just curious.

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