Comments on: CLASS AND IRELAND (p.3):RECORDS OF A FLOATING LIFE http://dublinopinion.com/2008/09/30/class-and-ireland-p3records-of-a-floating-life/ It's a group blog. What more do you need to know? Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:42:07 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 By: Seán Báite http://dublinopinion.com/2008/09/30/class-and-ireland-p3records-of-a-floating-life/#comment-68556 Seán Báite Wed, 01 Oct 2008 08:08:12 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2008/09/30/class-and-ireland-p3records-of-a-floating-life/#comment-68556 OK Conor - ta for the clarifications on Eipper's study - did you hit 40 sometime during the typing of that comment - as I've only sent off the 39 card ?? :-) OK Conor - ta for the clarifications on Eipper’s study - did you hit 40 sometime during the typing of that comment - as I’ve only sent off the 39 card ??
:-)

]]> By: Conor McCabe http://dublinopinion.com/2008/09/30/class-and-ireland-p3records-of-a-floating-life/#comment-68553 Conor McCabe Tue, 30 Sep 2008 23:47:14 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2008/09/30/class-and-ireland-p3records-of-a-floating-life/#comment-68553 hehe. hehe.

]]> By: Garibaldy http://dublinopinion.com/2008/09/30/class-and-ireland-p3records-of-a-floating-life/#comment-68552 Garibaldy Tue, 30 Sep 2008 23:23:20 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2008/09/30/class-and-ireland-p3records-of-a-floating-life/#comment-68552 It's surprising, especially when you remember that they now have access to virtually unlimited funds, and the expertise of the NI Civil Service, and can lift stuff from its work for their policy documents. I think one of the main differences is the lack of a strong vision for a radically different society. I think I've heard Ruane say "won't somebody please think of the children" :-) It’s surprising, especially when you remember that they now have access to virtually unlimited funds, and the expertise of the NI Civil Service, and can lift stuff from its work for their policy documents. I think one of the main differences is the lack of a strong vision for a radically different society. I think I’ve heard Ruane say “won’t somebody please think of the children” :-)

]]> By: Conor McCabe http://dublinopinion.com/2008/09/30/class-and-ireland-p3records-of-a-floating-life/#comment-68549 Conor McCabe Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:43:03 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2008/09/30/class-and-ireland-p3records-of-a-floating-life/#comment-68549 I reckon there's a lot in that. Just watching the oireachtas debate and Sinn Fein have just sat down, and what they said was fine, but it was quite general. Not quite "won't somebody please think of the children!", but not far from it. Definitely, Sinn Féin's weak spot these days. I reckon there’s a lot in that. Just watching the oireachtas debate and Sinn Fein have just sat down, and what they said was fine, but it was quite general. Not quite “won’t somebody please think of the children!”, but not far from it. Definitely, Sinn Féin’s weak spot these days.

]]> By: Garibaldy http://dublinopinion.com/2008/09/30/class-and-ireland-p3records-of-a-floating-life/#comment-68548 Garibaldy Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:54:25 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2008/09/30/class-and-ireland-p3records-of-a-floating-life/#comment-68548 I wonder if the PSF lack of economics was a response to The WP, or just disinterest in almost anything save the national question. Plus we forget that for most of the Troubles, it was very much a junior partner, and a much smaller organisation. We can hope that the current crisis will provoke the unions to do more, but I won't hold my breath. I wonder if the PSF lack of economics was a response to The WP, or just disinterest in almost anything save the national question. Plus we forget that for most of the Troubles, it was very much a junior partner, and a much smaller organisation. We can hope that the current crisis will provoke the unions to do more, but I won’t hold my breath.

]]> By: Conor McCabe http://dublinopinion.com/2008/09/30/class-and-ireland-p3records-of-a-floating-life/#comment-68546 Conor McCabe Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:31:47 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2008/09/30/class-and-ireland-p3records-of-a-floating-life/#comment-68546 As part of this research project I had a look through Sinn Féin's pamphlets, policy documents, etc, and it was actually a bit shocking the serious lack of material on economics. Then you look at what the workers' party was producing in the 1970s, and Sinn Féin seemed to have taken a hard-boiled reaction to it all. Gerry Adams bombed (*ahem*) in the election debates last year, precisely because he hadn't a clue about the economy. One union which is producing stuff in smoky back-rooms is UNITE, which we get to read via Michael Taft. If only more unions were doing the same. As part of this research project I had a look through Sinn Féin’s pamphlets, policy documents, etc, and it was actually a bit shocking the serious lack of material on economics.
Then you look at what the workers’ party was producing in the 1970s, and Sinn Féin seemed to have taken a hard-boiled reaction to it all. Gerry Adams bombed (*ahem*) in the election debates last year, precisely because he hadn’t a clue about the economy.

One union which is producing stuff in smoky back-rooms is UNITE, which we get to read via Michael Taft. If only more unions were doing the same.

]]> By: Garibaldy http://dublinopinion.com/2008/09/30/class-and-ireland-p3records-of-a-floating-life/#comment-68545 Garibaldy Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:54:40 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2008/09/30/class-and-ireland-p3records-of-a-floating-life/#comment-68545 Like you say Conor, it's all about the donkey work (which I don't do myself of course!). I do think genuinely that the stuff that came out of the old Research Section was important in terms of articulating a detailed alternative to the policies then being followed. No party is doing this today - the smaller ones at this point can produce fairly detailed stuff in areas of interest to particular members, but there is no overarching analysis. I remember talking on Slugger about the Provo clár for their last ard fheis and commenting just how pathetic the economic motions were for a party of government in the north, and an aspiring party of government in the south. I think it's partly because of the collapse of the harder social sciences reducing the numbers of people doing this stuff to start with, but also the shift in political and cultural debate to more vague and abstract concepts of fairness etc. Liam Kennedy might be a case in point. Quite a lot of his stuff has moved from hard-nosed economics to analysis of culture. A few more people in smoky backrooms of trade unions working on this type of stuff would do the left not only in Ireland but elsewhere a power of good. Oh, and agree with you on Crotty entirely. Like you say Conor, it’s all about the donkey work (which I don’t do myself of course!). I do think genuinely that the stuff that came out of the old Research Section was important in terms of articulating a detailed alternative to the policies then being followed. No party is doing this today - the smaller ones at this point can produce fairly detailed stuff in areas of interest to particular members, but there is no overarching analysis. I remember talking on Slugger about the Provo clár for their last ard fheis and commenting just how pathetic the economic motions were for a party of government in the north, and an aspiring party of government in the south.

I think it’s partly because of the collapse of the harder social sciences reducing the numbers of people doing this stuff to start with, but also the shift in political and cultural debate to more vague and abstract concepts of fairness etc. Liam Kennedy might be a case in point. Quite a lot of his stuff has moved from hard-nosed economics to analysis of culture. A few more people in smoky backrooms of trade unions working on this type of stuff would do the left not only in Ireland but elsewhere a power of good.

Oh, and agree with you on Crotty entirely.

]]> By: Conor McCabe http://dublinopinion.com/2008/09/30/class-and-ireland-p3records-of-a-floating-life/#comment-68544 Conor McCabe Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:27:11 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2008/09/30/class-and-ireland-p3records-of-a-floating-life/#comment-68544 Cheers Garibaldy. I came late to Smullen's work - to such an extent that only a couple of weeks ago I was thinking of trying to arrange a meeting with him to ask him more about his work, only to discover that he has passed on. As I said, I'm not taking everything he said on board, but as far as his work and analysis goes, it's impressive, and in terms of the Irish Marxist canon - if such a thing exists - it's head and shoulders above almost everything else. Smullen didn't just appropriate a theory and then throw in the requisite quotes from Connolly: he did the donkey work that nobody wants to do, but which needs to be done in order to get to what is really going on. And I'd almost say the same about Crotty, although parts of his work border on loopy! Having said that, I've found his analysis of the Irish cattle industry invaluable. Cheers Garibaldy. I came late to Smullen’s work - to such an extent that only a couple of weeks ago I was thinking of trying to arrange a meeting with him to ask him more about his work, only to discover that he has passed on. As I said, I’m not taking everything he said on board, but as far as his work and analysis goes, it’s impressive, and in terms of the Irish Marxist canon - if such a thing exists - it’s head and shoulders above almost everything else. Smullen didn’t just appropriate a theory and then throw in the requisite quotes from Connolly: he did the donkey work that nobody wants to do, but which needs to be done in order to get to what is really going on.

And I’d almost say the same about Crotty, although parts of his work border on loopy! Having said that, I’ve found his analysis of the Irish cattle industry invaluable.

]]> By: Garibaldy http://dublinopinion.com/2008/09/30/class-and-ireland-p3records-of-a-floating-life/#comment-68543 Garibaldy Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:09:15 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2008/09/30/class-and-ireland-p3records-of-a-floating-life/#comment-68543 Superb post Conor. Fantastic. I'll definitely be looking up Eipper. Smullen was an innovative thinker, and a big loss. Still, shoots of recovery are emerging as this post proves. Can't wait to see the fuller versions of this stuff. Superb post Conor. Fantastic. I’ll definitely be looking up Eipper. Smullen was an innovative thinker, and a big loss. Still, shoots of recovery are emerging as this post proves. Can’t wait to see the fuller versions of this stuff.

]]> By: Conor McCabe http://dublinopinion.com/2008/09/30/class-and-ireland-p3records-of-a-floating-life/#comment-68542 Conor McCabe Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:56:12 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2008/09/30/class-and-ireland-p3records-of-a-floating-life/#comment-68542 In fairness to the CSO, it's a standard form they use to issue the figures, and that line has been on it for years. I should have made that clear. Bit of a cheap shot on my part, but hey! In fairness to the CSO, it’s a standard form they use to issue the figures, and that line has been on it for years. I should have made that clear. Bit of a cheap shot on my part, but hey!

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