Comments on: DUBLIN RENTS AND IRISH JOURNALISM: THE MYTH OF DEMAND http://dublinopinion.com/2007/12/07/dublin-rents-the-myth-of-demand/ It's a group blog. What more do you need to know? Fri, 12 Mar 2010 20:32:49 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 By: Not Me, Guv « Most Sincerely Folks http://dublinopinion.com/2007/12/07/dublin-rents-the-myth-of-demand/#comment-68990 Not Me, Guv « Most Sincerely Folks Tue, 02 Dec 2008 07:41:30 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/12/07/dublin-rents-the-myth-of-demand/#comment-68990 [...] Dublin Opinion » Blog Archive » DUBLIN RENTS AND IRISH JOURNALISM: THE MYTH OF DEMAND Now, in Ireland, the two main newspapers own property websites: The Irish Times with myhome.ie, and the Irish Independent with propertynews.com. As such, the chances of getting anything approaching a balanced view of the Irish property market is simply impossible - given the fact that both have invested heavily in what is a multi-billion Euro industry. [...] […] Dublin Opinion » Blog Archive » DUBLIN RENTS AND IRISH JOURNALISM: THE MYTH OF DEMAND Now, in Ireland, the two main newspapers own property websites: The Irish Times with myhome.ie, and the Irish Independent with propertynews.com. As such, the chances of getting anything approaching a balanced view of the Irish property market is simply impossible - given the fact that both have invested heavily in what is a multi-billion Euro industry. […]

]]> By: Irish Election » TALKING UP THE RENTAL MARKET http://dublinopinion.com/2007/12/07/dublin-rents-the-myth-of-demand/#comment-50663 Irish Election » TALKING UP THE RENTAL MARKET Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:10:28 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/12/07/dublin-rents-the-myth-of-demand/#comment-50663 [...] week I posted a survey of the first one hundred properties listed on Daft.ie for rent in Dublin, as taken from the Daft [...] […] week I posted a survey of the first one hundred properties listed on Daft.ie for rent in Dublin, as taken from the Daft […]

]]> By: Dublin Opinion » Blog Archive » DAFT PRICES CONTINUE TO DROP http://dublinopinion.com/2007/12/07/dublin-rents-the-myth-of-demand/#comment-50662 Dublin Opinion » Blog Archive » DAFT PRICES CONTINUE TO DROP Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:08:42 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/12/07/dublin-rents-the-myth-of-demand/#comment-50662 [...] week I posted a survey of the first one hundred properties listed on Daft.ie for rent in Dublin, as taken from the Daft [...] […] week I posted a survey of the first one hundred properties listed on Daft.ie for rent in Dublin, as taken from the Daft […]

]]> By: Mr Tagomi http://dublinopinion.com/2007/12/07/dublin-rents-the-myth-of-demand/#comment-49769 Mr Tagomi Sun, 09 Dec 2007 22:22:07 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/12/07/dublin-rents-the-myth-of-demand/#comment-49769 Well, what you have described there is gombeenism as far as I'm concerned. Granted, it's a sophisticated, 24-carat brand of gombeenism, but still, it's the same mentality. I think Bush's regime in America is probably the apex of gombeenism in the history of the planet. I'd say Bertie and co are in awe of the achievements of those lads. As for rents, just another anecdote - the apartment below us here was vacated about three months ago, and one evening there were prospective tenants literally queuing down the car park to view it. From my experience of viewing houses this year, there are loads of people who want to purchase houses and apartments but either cannot at the moment or are afraid to. Obviously, if the first-time buyers among these have not bought already, then they are renting. I think Cowan's stamp-duty move may do something to progress some of the stalled property chains out there. I certainly hope so. My gut feeling is that the market won't bottom out until the middle of 2008, and that is assuming the global financial situation doesn't get any worse. Well, what you have described there is gombeenism as far as I’m concerned. Granted, it’s a sophisticated, 24-carat brand of gombeenism, but still, it’s the same mentality. I think Bush’s regime in America is probably the apex of gombeenism in the history of the planet. I’d say Bertie and co are in awe of the achievements of those lads.

As for rents, just another anecdote - the apartment below us here was vacated about three months ago, and one evening there were prospective tenants literally queuing down the car park to view it.

From my experience of viewing houses this year, there are loads of people who want to purchase houses and apartments but either cannot at the moment or are afraid to. Obviously, if the first-time buyers among these have not bought already, then they are renting.

I think Cowan’s stamp-duty move may do something to progress some of the stalled property chains out there. I certainly hope so. My gut feeling is that the market won’t bottom out until the middle of 2008, and that is assuming the global financial situation doesn’t get any worse.

]]> By: Conor McCabe http://dublinopinion.com/2007/12/07/dublin-rents-the-myth-of-demand/#comment-49398 Conor McCabe Fri, 07 Dec 2007 21:34:52 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/12/07/dublin-rents-the-myth-of-demand/#comment-49398 Actually, there's a lot of doubt about the media claim rents rising. Any research I've done shows rents falling. and I don't see this as goombeen Ireland at all. I see this in terms of class - where we have an industrial and business elite setting the economic policy of the entire country, and twisting it to suit their financial concerns. We then have the situation where our tax money is then used to bail out these same interests once things get tough. goombeen Ireland conjures up images of Halls Pictorial Weekly for me, and the guys who are ripping us off are a few hundred billion Euro away from those caricatures. The only parish pumps these guys see are 24 carrot ones. finally, 1) people keep on buying because the politicians and the mainstream media kept on telling them everything was ok - the "boomer times" of Berites world and 2) the "experts" in the banks kept on giving them loans, assuring them that they were making sound financial investments, even when they plainly could not afford to buy. And 3) we have the fear factor. The "it's your pension" reason to buy property. These cunts used all the marketing tricks in the (very old) book, and by god it worked. They stimulated prices through the hype of false demand, even though all the figures show that we have vast amounts of unoccupied property, and were allowed to so so completely unchallenged. They would still be doing it now were it not for the end of cheap credit via the international credit burst bubble. none of this is in any way comparable to the local councillors and "gombeen" Kilinaskully image. These guys are fucking pros. and they have mugged us. Actually, there’s a lot of doubt about the media claim rents rising. Any research I’ve done shows rents falling.

and I don’t see this as goombeen Ireland at all. I see this in terms of class - where we have an industrial and business elite setting the economic policy of the entire country, and twisting it to suit their financial concerns.

We then have the situation where our tax money is then used to bail out these same interests once things get tough.

goombeen Ireland conjures up images of Halls Pictorial Weekly for me, and the guys who are ripping us off are a few hundred billion Euro away from those caricatures. The only parish pumps these guys see are 24 carrot ones.

finally, 1) people keep on buying because the politicians and the mainstream media kept on telling them everything was ok - the “boomer times” of Berites world and 2) the “experts” in the banks kept on giving them loans, assuring them that they were making sound financial investments, even when they plainly could not afford to buy. And 3) we have the fear factor. The “it’s your pension” reason to buy property. These cunts used all the marketing tricks in the (very old) book, and by god it worked. They stimulated prices through the hype of false demand, even though all the figures show that we have vast amounts of unoccupied property, and were allowed to so so completely unchallenged.

They would still be doing it now were it not for the end of cheap credit via the international credit burst bubble. none of this is in any way comparable to the local councillors and “gombeen” Kilinaskully image.

These guys are fucking pros. and they have mugged us.

]]> By: sonofstan http://dublinopinion.com/2007/12/07/dublin-rents-the-myth-of-demand/#comment-49387 sonofstan Fri, 07 Dec 2007 20:31:48 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/12/07/dublin-rents-the-myth-of-demand/#comment-49387 <i> Don’t really understand why sonofstan thinks I am blaming you.</i> I meant your comment about 'the hint of glee' and I was connecting it with the propoganda coming until recently from govt. and media that doommongers were somehow dragging down the market - that it was in some way unpatriotic to point out that bubbles burst. I didn't think you were actually blaming Dublin Opinion Don’t really understand why sonofstan thinks I am blaming you.
I meant your comment about ‘the hint of glee’ and I was connecting it with the propoganda coming until recently from govt. and media that doommongers were somehow dragging down the market - that it was in some way unpatriotic to point out that bubbles burst. I didn’t think you were actually blaming Dublin Opinion

]]> By: Mr Tagomi http://dublinopinion.com/2007/12/07/dublin-rents-the-myth-of-demand/#comment-49364 Mr Tagomi Fri, 07 Dec 2007 18:08:17 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/12/07/dublin-rents-the-myth-of-demand/#comment-49364 All right, maybe the article has some estate agent blather, but it does say that rents have flattened out, which they have. And there's not really much doubt that they have risen recently. By how much, I have no idea. Although, are we talking about the same article? The one I read talked about people having set rents way too high and failing to get tenants. One claim is borne out anecdotally, for me at least. We have just agreed a sale on one of our apartments to an investor. We had to drop the price drastically, but we don't mind as long as we buy at the same market level or lower. I'm well aware that reporting in the media on the state of the market has been utter bilge. They talk about prices having dropped 3 or 4% this year so far, when it's more like 15% or even 20%. I do blame the govt for the property bubble, not you! Don't really understand why sonofstan thinks I am blaming you. But there was idiocy involved in the bubble, especially in the last two years of it when it was clear that prices were absolutely off the scale of ludicrousness. Why did people keep buying? Why were they willing to take out 100% mortgages? It was clear as day that prices were going to fall back. Anyway, I wholeheartedly share your disgust at the whole situation. Gombeen Ireland is alive and well. All right, maybe the article has some estate agent blather, but it does say that rents have flattened out, which they have. And there’s not really much doubt that they have risen recently. By how much, I have no idea.

Although, are we talking about the same article? The one I read talked about people having set rents way too high and failing to get tenants.

One claim is borne out anecdotally, for me at least. We have just agreed a sale on one of our apartments to an investor. We had to drop the price drastically, but we don’t mind as long as we buy at the same market level or lower.

I’m well aware that reporting in the media on the state of the market has been utter bilge. They talk about prices having dropped 3 or 4% this year so far, when it’s more like 15% or even 20%.

I do blame the govt for the property bubble, not you! Don’t really understand why sonofstan thinks I am blaming you.

But there was idiocy involved in the bubble, especially in the last two years of it when it was clear that prices were absolutely off the scale of ludicrousness. Why did people keep buying? Why were they willing to take out 100% mortgages? It was clear as day that prices were going to fall back.

Anyway, I wholeheartedly share your disgust at the whole situation. Gombeen Ireland is alive and well.

]]> By: Conor McCabe http://dublinopinion.com/2007/12/07/dublin-rents-the-myth-of-demand/#comment-49343 Conor McCabe Fri, 07 Dec 2007 16:00:02 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/12/07/dublin-rents-the-myth-of-demand/#comment-49343 Gareth, I genuinely happy to hear that. It's tough, all of this. and on so many people as well. Thing is, this should be in the mainstream press, instead of on a blogsite with less than 200 readers. But there you go. That's Irish journalism for you. Press releases from estate agents make the front page, while analysis is left to the periphery. Gareth, I genuinely happy to hear that. It’s tough, all of this. and on so many people as well. Thing is, this should be in the mainstream press, instead of on a blogsite with less than 200 readers. But there you go. That’s Irish journalism for you. Press releases from estate agents make the front page, while analysis is left to the periphery.

]]> By: gareth http://dublinopinion.com/2007/12/07/dublin-rents-the-myth-of-demand/#comment-49337 gareth Fri, 07 Dec 2007 15:23:45 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/12/07/dublin-rents-the-myth-of-demand/#comment-49337 Having given up on trying to sell a house last year, I'm delighted to have found tenants for it 2 months ago. I just hope they don't read this blog and decide to move elsewhere to save cash! The worrying part (or maximum shadenfreude part - depending on your circumstance) of this whole story is yet to un-fold, what will happen to rental income when the 10,000+ apartments - not yet built but nearing completion - come onto the rental market. And on to the rental market they will surely go, as the developers have a snow-ball's chance of selling them. If I was a brickie working on a development in Dublin at present, I would be demanding daily pay! Mr Tagomi, you have my sympathies but do yourself a favour and take your properties off the market or drop their price by a third. G Having given up on trying to sell a house last year, I’m delighted to have found tenants for it 2 months ago. I just hope they don’t read this blog and decide to move elsewhere to save cash! The worrying part (or maximum shadenfreude part - depending on your circumstance) of this whole story is yet to un-fold, what will happen to rental income when the 10,000+ apartments - not yet built but nearing completion - come onto the rental market. And on to the rental market they will surely go, as the developers have a snow-ball’s chance of selling them. If I was a brickie working on a development in Dublin at present, I would be demanding daily pay! Mr Tagomi, you have my sympathies but do yourself a favour and take your properties off the market or drop their price by a third. G

]]> By: Conor McCabe http://dublinopinion.com/2007/12/07/dublin-rents-the-myth-of-demand/#comment-49326 Conor McCabe Fri, 07 Dec 2007 14:09:09 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/12/07/dublin-rents-the-myth-of-demand/#comment-49326 Mr. Tagomi, I've just had a read of the Irish Times article on rent prices. It is not balanced at all. In fact, all the comments come from estate agents, talking about serious investors in it for the long haul, and how "anecdotal" evidence suggests queues around the corner. It says that rents are up 20% this year, and are now levelling off, but does not say where it got those figures from. Daft.ie didn't even say that, while the CSO give a much more modest 12% - with a drop in September and zero growth in October, the last month for which figures are available. Finally, here's Edel Morgan talking about her own investigations into the rental market. "Most of the agents I spoke to claim there has been low level investor activity in the last four months. The consensus seems to be that they are serial investors that are in it for the long haul. "They see a cycle and they think it's a good time to buy and get a good price," says Barry Finnegan of Sherry FitzGerald lettings. "They are acting now before interest rates pull back next year." He says yields have slowly improved, and claims it is possible to achieve yields as high as 4.75 per cent in parts of west Dublin." The "serious investors" think its a smart time to buy again. "They see a cycle" "they are acting now..." 1st year advertising claptrap. And the Irish Times calls this reportage? The link to the article. http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/property/2007/1206/1196838948256.html Mr. Tagomi, I’ve just had a read of the Irish Times article on rent prices. It is not balanced at all. In fact, all the comments come from estate agents, talking about serious investors in it for the long haul, and how “anecdotal” evidence suggests queues around the corner. It says that rents are up 20% this year, and are now levelling off, but does not say where it got those figures from. Daft.ie didn’t even say that, while the CSO give a much more modest 12% - with a drop in September and zero growth in October, the last month for which figures are available. Finally, here’s Edel Morgan talking about her own investigations into the rental market.

“Most of the agents I spoke to claim there has been low level investor activity in the last four months. The consensus seems to be that they are serial investors that are in it for the long haul. “They see a cycle and they think it’s a good time to buy and get a good price,” says Barry Finnegan of Sherry FitzGerald lettings. “They are acting now before interest rates pull back next year.” He says yields have slowly improved, and claims it is possible to achieve yields as high as 4.75 per cent in parts of west Dublin.”

The “serious investors” think its a smart time to buy again. “They see a cycle” “they are acting now…” 1st year advertising claptrap.
And the Irish Times calls this reportage?

The link to the article.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/property/2007/1206/1196838948256.html

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