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	<title>Comments on: The Sacking Of Richard: Print Media, Blogs and the Advertisers Inbetween</title>
	<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-sacking-of-richard-print-media-blogs-and-the-advertisers-inbetween/</link>
	<description>It's a group blog. What more do you need to know?</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 15:24:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Idetrorce</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-sacking-of-richard-print-media-blogs-and-the-advertisers-inbetween/#comment-50893</link>
		<author>Idetrorce</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 13:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-sacking-of-richard-print-media-blogs-and-the-advertisers-inbetween/#comment-50893</guid>
		<description>very interesting, but I don't agree with you 
Idetrorce</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>very interesting, but I don&#8217;t agree with you<br />
Idetrorce</p>
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		<title>By: Donagh</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-sacking-of-richard-print-media-blogs-and-the-advertisers-inbetween/#comment-46514</link>
		<author>Donagh</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 11:57:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-sacking-of-richard-print-media-blogs-and-the-advertisers-inbetween/#comment-46514</guid>
		<description>You know Harry, I believe you. Thanks for letting us know the facts and it answers my question about the legal vetting of the piece. I presumed it had been, never having worked in a news room. I assumed he wouldn't have a choice, but that the decision would be with someone higher up. 

As we've argued here &lt;a href="http://dublinopinion.com/2007/08/18/irish-housing-watching-a-fat-man-dance/" rel="nofollow"&gt;before&lt;/a&gt;, the property market in Ireland has been pumped up and that there has been certain vested interests involved in this, including Government. We've also argued that this is definitely not the right thing for the Irish economy in the long term. The ARW post highlighted the same issue. Its a concern that the same points haven't been made by our national newspapers, but because they are so tied into the economic benefits of property speculation they prefer not to. 

The piece was dodgy because it's tone suggested that McDonald was shifty and a hypocrite. It was written in a way that could, considering Irish defamation laws, been seen as libelous. Not because what was said was inaccurate but because it suggested underhandedness - talking up the housing market while at the same time having personal experience of a downturn. 

Clearly Richard was his own worst enemy but still it is really the case that these 'anomalies' between what is being said and what is happening can only be pointed out an semi-anonymous blogs, which are too small for the big wigs to notice, and which if they do are easy to dismiss?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know Harry, I believe you. Thanks for letting us know the facts and it answers my question about the legal vetting of the piece. I presumed it had been, never having worked in a news room. I assumed he wouldn&#8217;t have a choice, but that the decision would be with someone higher up. </p>
<p>As we&#8217;ve argued here <a href="http://dublinopinion.com/2007/08/18/irish-housing-watching-a-fat-man-dance/" rel="nofollow">before</a>, the property market in Ireland has been pumped up and that there has been certain vested interests involved in this, including Government. We&#8217;ve also argued that this is definitely not the right thing for the Irish economy in the long term. The ARW post highlighted the same issue. Its a concern that the same points haven&#8217;t been made by our national newspapers, but because they are so tied into the economic benefits of property speculation they prefer not to. </p>
<p>The piece was dodgy because it&#8217;s tone suggested that McDonald was shifty and a hypocrite. It was written in a way that could, considering Irish defamation laws, been seen as libelous. Not because what was said was inaccurate but because it suggested underhandedness - talking up the housing market while at the same time having personal experience of a downturn. </p>
<p>Clearly Richard was his own worst enemy but still it is really the case that these &#8216;anomalies&#8217; between what is being said and what is happening can only be pointed out an semi-anonymous blogs, which are too small for the big wigs to notice, and which if they do are easy to dismiss?</p>
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		<title>By: Harry</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-sacking-of-richard-print-media-blogs-and-the-advertisers-inbetween/#comment-46512</link>
		<author>Harry</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 11:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-sacking-of-richard-print-media-blogs-and-the-advertisers-inbetween/#comment-46512</guid>
		<description>Delevan got was coming. He is a total loose cannon and a bully to boot. As for showing the copy to a lawyer? He was told by his chief sub the piece was dodgy and -- FACT -- he refused to contact the legal dept about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Delevan got was coming. He is a total loose cannon and a bully to boot. As for showing the copy to a lawyer? He was told by his chief sub the piece was dodgy and &#8212; FACT &#8212; he refused to contact the legal dept about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Donagh</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-sacking-of-richard-print-media-blogs-and-the-advertisers-inbetween/#comment-46452</link>
		<author>Donagh</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 23:33:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-sacking-of-richard-print-media-blogs-and-the-advertisers-inbetween/#comment-46452</guid>
		<description>Er, that was my point when I said &lt;i&gt;it would appear that there is a direct relationship between the actions of this newspaper and the sentiments of the advertiser.&lt;/i&gt;. There is a difference though, isn't there between blogs and newspapers? Small pesky blogs, such as Random Walk which are semi-anonymous can get away with saying  such things because it goes out to a relatively small audience. This is still one of the plus things about blogs, at least from the point of view of the people who write them. Nothing in the Random Walk post was inaccurate, which is probably why Richard felt so confident citing it. But blogs don't rely on advertising, and Richard must have been aware that it would annoy McDonald. Added to that his tone was very sarcy. A sarciness that one would associate more with blogs where the come-back is less immediate, if it ever comes. 

Also, because pesky blogs have no resources to fight heavy hitters like McDonald Richard shouldn't have brought ARW walk so close to the firing line.  

I'm not condoning the actions of the Tribune and certainly I feel that he should have been able to point these things out without getting fired - if its supposed to be a paper that follows proper journalistic standards. I just think that Richard was a little unwise and should have been aware of the fallout for him - he knows the score about newspapers(especially IN&#38;M ones) work in Ireland. I do feel sorry for him, in a way, although I've always seriously disliked his politics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Er, that was my point when I said <i>it would appear that there is a direct relationship between the actions of this newspaper and the sentiments of the advertiser.</i>. There is a difference though, isn&#8217;t there between blogs and newspapers? Small pesky blogs, such as Random Walk which are semi-anonymous can get away with saying  such things because it goes out to a relatively small audience. This is still one of the plus things about blogs, at least from the point of view of the people who write them. Nothing in the Random Walk post was inaccurate, which is probably why Richard felt so confident citing it. But blogs don&#8217;t rely on advertising, and Richard must have been aware that it would annoy McDonald. Added to that his tone was very sarcy. A sarciness that one would associate more with blogs where the come-back is less immediate, if it ever comes. </p>
<p>Also, because pesky blogs have no resources to fight heavy hitters like McDonald Richard shouldn&#8217;t have brought ARW walk so close to the firing line.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not condoning the actions of the Tribune and certainly I feel that he should have been able to point these things out without getting fired - if its supposed to be a paper that follows proper journalistic standards. I just think that Richard was a little unwise and should have been aware of the fallout for him - he knows the score about newspapers(especially IN&amp;M ones) work in Ireland. I do feel sorry for him, in a way, although I&#8217;ve always seriously disliked his politics.</p>
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		<title>By: EWI</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-sacking-of-richard-print-media-blogs-and-the-advertisers-inbetween/#comment-46445</link>
		<author>EWI</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:03:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-sacking-of-richard-print-media-blogs-and-the-advertisers-inbetween/#comment-46445</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;meeting, or perhaps clash, of blogs and traditional media.&lt;/i&gt;

I'd advise you to give up smoking the mulley-weed. If Richard was fired for this, then it was for the offence of having embaressed a major advertiser, not for anything to do with blogs per se.

My animosity towards the Indo-group execs aside, I'm sorry to see this happen to him. Even the sight of a &lt;a&gt;Waghorne endoresement&lt;a href="http://www.israpundit.com/archives/2006/01/not_guilty_as_c.php" rel="nofollow"&gt; doesn't change my sense that he's calmed down a bit in recent years, and gotten more sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>meeting, or perhaps clash, of blogs and traditional media.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;d advise you to give up smoking the mulley-weed. If Richard was fired for this, then it was for the offence of having embaressed a major advertiser, not for anything to do with blogs per se.</p>
<p>My animosity towards the Indo-group execs aside, I&#8217;m sorry to see this happen to him. Even the sight of a <a>Waghorne endoresement</a><a href="http://www.israpundit.com/archives/2006/01/not_guilty_as_c.php" rel="nofollow"> doesn&#8217;t change my sense that he&#8217;s calmed down a bit in recent years, and gotten more sense.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Donagh</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-sacking-of-richard-print-media-blogs-and-the-advertisers-inbetween/#comment-43942</link>
		<author>Donagh</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 15:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-sacking-of-richard-print-media-blogs-and-the-advertisers-inbetween/#comment-43942</guid>
		<description>Londoner, I didn’t expand on the point in my post, but I had intended on commenting on how the piece in the Sunday Tribune read like a blog post, and because Richard Deleven is a blogger and an advocate of new media it almost appears that he got confused about what sort of piece he was writing. I suppose I was starting to make reference to this when pointing to the attribution at the end of the piece to A Random Walk. I’m sure many of us have read stuff in the paper that we’re sure came from such and such a blog without any acknowledgement of the fact. In fact, I think Hugh was quoted in the Trib around the Trocaire thing without acknowledgement. 

So the tone was that of someone who enjoyed the relative anonymity of a blog taking a crack at a well known figure who Richard should have known could come a knocking at his office door. In fact, the ARW post quoted a piece from the Irish Independent which mentioned that McDonald took exception to a previous piece in the paper. 

Perhaps the thing that gave him the confidence to write it in that way was that the original ARW post which linked together information that was already available, along side statements from McDonald talking up the market. Again, I can’t imagine Richard considered McDonald as the enemy, so he wasn’t out to get Auctioneers in general. Rather it was to highlight what he saw as hypocrisy. There is also the unacknowledged fact in blogs, such as ARW, that Ireland’s economic dependence on an over-inflated property market looks like becoming a serious problem, especially in the light of the collapse of similarly hyper-inflated housing markets in the US and elsewhere. This fact, widely discussed elsewhere, hardly figures in newspapers at all, for the good reason that with newspapers reliance on property advertising that it is not in its interest to do so. Again, Richard seemed to forget this fact. What can be said on blogs can’t be said in newspapers and there is a very specific reason for that. 

Hugh, you’re exactly right about the other suggested reasons. They shouldn’t factor in this at all. The argument that this was a ‘good excuse’ doesn’t really work either, especially as it could backfire for the Trib. I think its a disciplining measure, but if the reasons are as we imagine, it’s a completely naked one and I’m surprised that the Trib would be willing to reveal how beholden it is to its advertisers without even trying to pretend that it stands by the integrity of its journalists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Londoner, I didn’t expand on the point in my post, but I had intended on commenting on how the piece in the Sunday Tribune read like a blog post, and because Richard Deleven is a blogger and an advocate of new media it almost appears that he got confused about what sort of piece he was writing. I suppose I was starting to make reference to this when pointing to the attribution at the end of the piece to A Random Walk. I’m sure many of us have read stuff in the paper that we’re sure came from such and such a blog without any acknowledgement of the fact. In fact, I think Hugh was quoted in the Trib around the Trocaire thing without acknowledgement. </p>
<p>So the tone was that of someone who enjoyed the relative anonymity of a blog taking a crack at a well known figure who Richard should have known could come a knocking at his office door. In fact, the ARW post quoted a piece from the Irish Independent which mentioned that McDonald took exception to a previous piece in the paper. </p>
<p>Perhaps the thing that gave him the confidence to write it in that way was that the original ARW post which linked together information that was already available, along side statements from McDonald talking up the market. Again, I can’t imagine Richard considered McDonald as the enemy, so he wasn’t out to get Auctioneers in general. Rather it was to highlight what he saw as hypocrisy. There is also the unacknowledged fact in blogs, such as ARW, that Ireland’s economic dependence on an over-inflated property market looks like becoming a serious problem, especially in the light of the collapse of similarly hyper-inflated housing markets in the US and elsewhere. This fact, widely discussed elsewhere, hardly figures in newspapers at all, for the good reason that with newspapers reliance on property advertising that it is not in its interest to do so. Again, Richard seemed to forget this fact. What can be said on blogs can’t be said in newspapers and there is a very specific reason for that. </p>
<p>Hugh, you’re exactly right about the other suggested reasons. They shouldn’t factor in this at all. The argument that this was a ‘good excuse’ doesn’t really work either, especially as it could backfire for the Trib. I think its a disciplining measure, but if the reasons are as we imagine, it’s a completely naked one and I’m surprised that the Trib would be willing to reveal how beholden it is to its advertisers without even trying to pretend that it stands by the integrity of its journalists.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh Green</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-sacking-of-richard-print-media-blogs-and-the-advertisers-inbetween/#comment-43925</link>
		<author>Hugh Green</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 13:44:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-sacking-of-richard-print-media-blogs-and-the-advertisers-inbetween/#comment-43925</guid>
		<description>Agree with Londoner. The most compelling reason I can see for giving him the boot, based on the evidence in front of us, is the fact that his article could be interpreted as representing McDonald as dishonest at worst and hapless at best. Do that to one estate agent, you do it to them all, and that hits advertising revenue.

Regarding the allegations that he was a bit difficult to work with/for that are floating about, I have no idea if these are true, but even if they were, it is very difficult to get rid of someone based on that alone. Workplaces are full of such people.

The most likely scenario is a phone call, the content of which contained the words 'either he goes..'

I was quite surprised at the tone and content of the piece myself. It is rare for a newspaper to so blatantly bite the hand that feeds it.

Whatever the motivation behind it, the effect of Delevan's sacking will be to discipline journalists even further,  making sure they continue to report on the issues as their real paymasters require. 

Not that many of them actually need it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree with Londoner. The most compelling reason I can see for giving him the boot, based on the evidence in front of us, is the fact that his article could be interpreted as representing McDonald as dishonest at worst and hapless at best. Do that to one estate agent, you do it to them all, and that hits advertising revenue.</p>
<p>Regarding the allegations that he was a bit difficult to work with/for that are floating about, I have no idea if these are true, but even if they were, it is very difficult to get rid of someone based on that alone. Workplaces are full of such people.</p>
<p>The most likely scenario is a phone call, the content of which contained the words &#8216;either he goes..&#8217;</p>
<p>I was quite surprised at the tone and content of the piece myself. It is rare for a newspaper to so blatantly bite the hand that feeds it.</p>
<p>Whatever the motivation behind it, the effect of Delevan&#8217;s sacking will be to discipline journalists even further,  making sure they continue to report on the issues as their real paymasters require. </p>
<p>Not that many of them actually need it.</p>
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		<title>By: londoner</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-sacking-of-richard-print-media-blogs-and-the-advertisers-inbetween/#comment-43922</link>
		<author>londoner</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 13:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-sacking-of-richard-print-media-blogs-and-the-advertisers-inbetween/#comment-43922</guid>
		<description>emmm, advocate</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>emmm, advocate</p>
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		<title>By: londoner</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-sacking-of-richard-print-media-blogs-and-the-advertisers-inbetween/#comment-43921</link>
		<author>londoner</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 13:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-sacking-of-richard-print-media-blogs-and-the-advertisers-inbetween/#comment-43921</guid>
		<description>To advicate on behalf of BelZBub. Without the facts it is impossible to get a handle on what happened, it seems someone lost his job for attempting to do same in an interesting and critical way. However the piece does suggest some lack of judgement - it reads like there was no effort to contact McDonald in relation to the house. The tone is fairly snide (rightly or wrongly) and could in the extreme be construed to suggest a lack of either a] professional judgement or b] honesty on McDonald's behalf around his perception and presentation of the state of the market. An editor on a commercial publication with significant reliance on property market advertising should have been able to deliver the facts of the story without running  those risks. There is of course a wider issue around the Irish media's disproprtionate dependance on property advertising and the power that could give the sector, but throw away coverage is not going to do anything to address that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To advicate on behalf of BelZBub. Without the facts it is impossible to get a handle on what happened, it seems someone lost his job for attempting to do same in an interesting and critical way. However the piece does suggest some lack of judgement - it reads like there was no effort to contact McDonald in relation to the house. The tone is fairly snide (rightly or wrongly) and could in the extreme be construed to suggest a lack of either a] professional judgement or b] honesty on McDonald&#8217;s behalf around his perception and presentation of the state of the market. An editor on a commercial publication with significant reliance on property market advertising should have been able to deliver the facts of the story without running  those risks. There is of course a wider issue around the Irish media&#8217;s disproprtionate dependance on property advertising and the power that could give the sector, but throw away coverage is not going to do anything to address that.</p>
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		<title>By: Donagh</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-sacking-of-richard-print-media-blogs-and-the-advertisers-inbetween/#comment-43895</link>
		<author>Donagh</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 10:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-sacking-of-richard-print-media-blogs-and-the-advertisers-inbetween/#comment-43895</guid>
		<description>Of course at this stage we are only dealing with rumours. We don't know for definite why Richard got boot, and its unlikely that it will become official soon. However, its inevitable that rumours would circulate and they've been known to be true in the past. 

Certainly it could be that Richard 'had it coming', but even so, looking at A Random Walk's post now (thanks David, if it's up on politics.ie it's already widely available) its entirely based on stuff that is already out there, so it shouldn't have been a problem. But it's a PR disaster for The Sunday Tribune. This shouldn't have been a sackable offence. It just looks like McDonald, who has put pressure on newspapers for saying things he didn't like before, wanted action and the Trib obliged.  If the Irish Times can stand by their man for a very suspect opinion piece why should the Trib give in to a big wig in the property market. At the moment it doesn't look good, but of course, reality might be different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course at this stage we are only dealing with rumours. We don&#8217;t know for definite why Richard got boot, and its unlikely that it will become official soon. However, its inevitable that rumours would circulate and they&#8217;ve been known to be true in the past. </p>
<p>Certainly it could be that Richard &#8216;had it coming&#8217;, but even so, looking at A Random Walk&#8217;s post now (thanks David, if it&#8217;s up on politics.ie it&#8217;s already widely available) its entirely based on stuff that is already out there, so it shouldn&#8217;t have been a problem. But it&#8217;s a PR disaster for The Sunday Tribune. This shouldn&#8217;t have been a sackable offence. It just looks like McDonald, who has put pressure on newspapers for saying things he didn&#8217;t like before, wanted action and the Trib obliged.  If the Irish Times can stand by their man for a very suspect opinion piece why should the Trib give in to a big wig in the property market. At the moment it doesn&#8217;t look good, but of course, reality might be different.</p>
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