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	<title>Comments on: THE NEW MIDDLE CLASS: IRELAND&#8217;S REMARKABLE ROCKETS</title>
	<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-new-middle-class-irelands-remarkable-rockets/</link>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 15:23:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Dublin Opinion &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Daddy, Why Are You Working So Hard?</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-new-middle-class-irelands-remarkable-rockets/#comment-63385</link>
		<author>Dublin Opinion &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Daddy, Why Are You Working So Hard?</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-new-middle-class-irelands-remarkable-rockets/#comment-63385</guid>
		<description>[...] when we argue, as we have, that the idea that almost everyone in Ireland is middle class now is propagated by those who [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] when we argue, as we have, that the idea that almost everyone in Ireland is middle class now is propagated by those who [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Tomaltach</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-new-middle-class-irelands-remarkable-rockets/#comment-44481</link>
		<author>Tomaltach</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2007 15:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-new-middle-class-irelands-remarkable-rockets/#comment-44481</guid>
		<description>I agree here with Conor : the real winners here aren't those individuals who have  made a tasty little nest egg through escalating house prices, rather it's those who wield real power through their membership of a particular elite, whether a professional elite such as the auctioneers or a powerful lobby such as the developers. These guys have the ability to influence the entire structure of the system so that they gain far far more than others because the institutions and laws are geared in their favour. No government is prepared to undertake reform that would result in a more equal distribution of power. This has been clear in relation to the construction industry where taxes, exemptions, incentives, regulations, etc have failed to tilt the balance back in favour of the consumer or even in terms of long term societal goals.

Personally I find McWilliams' analysis trite and shallow. He rarely provided anything by way of a useful tool for understanding our society, obsessed as he is with rendering easily digested populism sweetened with dollops of cliche.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree here with Conor : the real winners here aren&#8217;t those individuals who have  made a tasty little nest egg through escalating house prices, rather it&#8217;s those who wield real power through their membership of a particular elite, whether a professional elite such as the auctioneers or a powerful lobby such as the developers. These guys have the ability to influence the entire structure of the system so that they gain far far more than others because the institutions and laws are geared in their favour. No government is prepared to undertake reform that would result in a more equal distribution of power. This has been clear in relation to the construction industry where taxes, exemptions, incentives, regulations, etc have failed to tilt the balance back in favour of the consumer or even in terms of long term societal goals.</p>
<p>Personally I find McWilliams&#8217; analysis trite and shallow. He rarely provided anything by way of a useful tool for understanding our society, obsessed as he is with rendering easily digested populism sweetened with dollops of cliche.</p>
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		<title>By: Conor McCabe</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-new-middle-class-irelands-remarkable-rockets/#comment-43987</link>
		<author>Conor McCabe</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 21:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-new-middle-class-irelands-remarkable-rockets/#comment-43987</guid>
		<description>Oh I agree. I think the tarnish is beginning to take over. Hopefully anyway. I see that Eddie Hobbs' mass appeal  is beginning to wane anyway. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh I agree. I think the tarnish is beginning to take over. Hopefully anyway. I see that Eddie Hobbs&#8217; mass appeal  is beginning to wane anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh Green</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-new-middle-class-irelands-remarkable-rockets/#comment-43965</link>
		<author>Hugh Green</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 18:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-new-middle-class-irelands-remarkable-rockets/#comment-43965</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;He asks people to spot themselves among these consumer groups, and by doing so shines a light away from the massive corruption and power-plays at the heart of Irish society. David Mcwilliams is to societal analysis what horoscopes are to the future.&lt;/i&gt;

OK, I just think that his method is so explicit that it almost becomes a parody of the whole practice of segmentation and treating human beings as units of mere consumption and prodction. Maybe I have too much faith in people, but I feel it would take a complete fucking knobhead to go to work having convinced himself that he's an uggler-buggler or whatever.

The thing about horoscopes is that they demonstrate a desire for a certain degree of order, of knowing that things can be foretold and that everything is part of the one system. I think this gets replicated somewhat in the popular pastime of filling out questionnaires to determine how much of a go-getter/sex bomb/property tycoon/emotional genius you really are. That is, you have this external omniscient authority -based on capitalist interest- and you need to see how much you fit in with its plans.

Maybe this is also part of McWilliams's present appeal, but I don't think that economic categories such as these can be flogged indefinitely. At some point it will dawn on a lot of people that, actually, it stinks. That's what I hope anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>He asks people to spot themselves among these consumer groups, and by doing so shines a light away from the massive corruption and power-plays at the heart of Irish society. David Mcwilliams is to societal analysis what horoscopes are to the future.</i></p>
<p>OK, I just think that his method is so explicit that it almost becomes a parody of the whole practice of segmentation and treating human beings as units of mere consumption and prodction. Maybe I have too much faith in people, but I feel it would take a complete fucking knobhead to go to work having convinced himself that he&#8217;s an uggler-buggler or whatever.</p>
<p>The thing about horoscopes is that they demonstrate a desire for a certain degree of order, of knowing that things can be foretold and that everything is part of the one system. I think this gets replicated somewhat in the popular pastime of filling out questionnaires to determine how much of a go-getter/sex bomb/property tycoon/emotional genius you really are. That is, you have this external omniscient authority -based on capitalist interest- and you need to see how much you fit in with its plans.</p>
<p>Maybe this is also part of McWilliams&#8217;s present appeal, but I don&#8217;t think that economic categories such as these can be flogged indefinitely. At some point it will dawn on a lot of people that, actually, it stinks. That&#8217;s what I hope anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Conor McCabe</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-new-middle-class-irelands-remarkable-rockets/#comment-43958</link>
		<author>Conor McCabe</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:29:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-new-middle-class-irelands-remarkable-rockets/#comment-43958</guid>
		<description>There are those who have latched onto the coat-tails of the construction industry, banks, and estate agents, but that's all. Mcwilliams, and the Irish media in general,  have them slap-bang in the middle, and that's not the case. The billions of euros that have been made in the last 12 years have not gone to the small number of people who have been able to downgrade, but to those vested interests that have seen the laws crafted to suit their agenda. 

We have all heard about these people who have been able to downgrade and make some money out of the mortgage boom, but we have no figures as to how many, or how much they've made. We have, instead, "anecdotal" evidence that they exist in their tens of thousands - enough, it seems, to  get the banks off the hook for fuelling the mortgage boom.  These tens of thousands are in the same phantom place as the holiday homes that were put out by all and sundry as the black hole in Irish construction until the Census showed that to be a lot of nonsense. 

The periphery has not set the agenda. householders have not set the agenda. The aforementioned vested interests Ireland have. and have made billions in the process.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are those who have latched onto the coat-tails of the construction industry, banks, and estate agents, but that&#8217;s all. Mcwilliams, and the Irish media in general,  have them slap-bang in the middle, and that&#8217;s not the case. The billions of euros that have been made in the last 12 years have not gone to the small number of people who have been able to downgrade, but to those vested interests that have seen the laws crafted to suit their agenda. </p>
<p>We have all heard about these people who have been able to downgrade and make some money out of the mortgage boom, but we have no figures as to how many, or how much they&#8217;ve made. We have, instead, &#8220;anecdotal&#8221; evidence that they exist in their tens of thousands - enough, it seems, to  get the banks off the hook for fuelling the mortgage boom.  These tens of thousands are in the same phantom place as the holiday homes that were put out by all and sundry as the black hole in Irish construction until the Census showed that to be a lot of nonsense. </p>
<p>The periphery has not set the agenda. householders have not set the agenda. The aforementioned vested interests Ireland have. and have made billions in the process.</p>
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		<title>By: Niall</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-new-middle-class-irelands-remarkable-rockets/#comment-43934</link>
		<author>Niall</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 14:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-new-middle-class-irelands-remarkable-rockets/#comment-43934</guid>
		<description>"And in the case of housing in Ireland, the 80% or so who own domestic property are nothing but fodder for the mortgage companies, banks, property speculators and developers, who get to set the rules."

You cannot say that only mortgage companies, banks, property speculators and developers have benefitted from the housing boom. They are the ones who benefitted the most, certainly, but there is a large group of houseowners who have also benefitted substantially in more modest ways. These people are quite unconcerned that the property developers and banks make big bucks provided they get a piece of the action as well. They don't set the rules, but once the rules work in their favour they are quite happy to play along.

These are the people who benefitted personally from rising house prices and they are usually above a certain age so McWilliam's generation analysis has value. These people have demonstrably benefitted and don't fit into your "80pc manipulated masses Vs property tycoons/banks" scenario.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And in the case of housing in Ireland, the 80% or so who own domestic property are nothing but fodder for the mortgage companies, banks, property speculators and developers, who get to set the rules.&#8221;</p>
<p>You cannot say that only mortgage companies, banks, property speculators and developers have benefitted from the housing boom. They are the ones who benefitted the most, certainly, but there is a large group of houseowners who have also benefitted substantially in more modest ways. These people are quite unconcerned that the property developers and banks make big bucks provided they get a piece of the action as well. They don&#8217;t set the rules, but once the rules work in their favour they are quite happy to play along.</p>
<p>These are the people who benefitted personally from rising house prices and they are usually above a certain age so McWilliam&#8217;s generation analysis has value. These people have demonstrably benefitted and don&#8217;t fit into your &#8220;80pc manipulated masses Vs property tycoons/banks&#8221; scenario.</p>
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		<title>By: Thriftcriminal</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-new-middle-class-irelands-remarkable-rockets/#comment-43932</link>
		<author>Thriftcriminal</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 14:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-new-middle-class-irelands-remarkable-rockets/#comment-43932</guid>
		<description>Conor, absolutely we are not free, but sold the illusion of freedom with optional extras (hence the Matrix reference). Nice one on the lack of robust analysis, wasn't aware of Val Burris, will check him out, thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Conor, absolutely we are not free, but sold the illusion of freedom with optional extras (hence the Matrix reference). Nice one on the lack of robust analysis, wasn&#8217;t aware of Val Burris, will check him out, thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Conor McCabe</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-new-middle-class-irelands-remarkable-rockets/#comment-43931</link>
		<author>Conor McCabe</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 14:08:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-new-middle-class-irelands-remarkable-rockets/#comment-43931</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comment, thriftcriminal. Thing is, the structures of capitalist production limit, not expand, opportunities. We are not free to do and to be what we want, because the vast majority of us still have to sell our time and labour in order to purchase a wage (which we need to obtain goods and services), and no amount of white-collars changes that fact. 

And you're spot on about the labelling thing. As far back as 1986, Val Burris wrote an article about media and social commentators' obsession with defining "the New Middle Class":

"The reasons for this preoccupation with the new middle class are not hard to identify. As salaried professionals, most social theorists are themselves members of the new middle class. Their concern with this group is thus motivated by an interest in self-understanding, if not by an inflated sense of their own importance."

The "inflated sense of their own importance" ties into the Ego thing alright, and serves to shield the power players from a more robust analysis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment, thriftcriminal. Thing is, the structures of capitalist production limit, not expand, opportunities. We are not free to do and to be what we want, because the vast majority of us still have to sell our time and labour in order to purchase a wage (which we need to obtain goods and services), and no amount of white-collars changes that fact. </p>
<p>And you&#8217;re spot on about the labelling thing. As far back as 1986, Val Burris wrote an article about media and social commentators&#8217; obsession with defining &#8220;the New Middle Class&#8221;:</p>
<p>&#8220;The reasons for this preoccupation with the new middle class are not hard to identify. As salaried professionals, most social theorists are themselves members of the new middle class. Their concern with this group is thus motivated by an interest in self-understanding, if not by an inflated sense of their own importance.&#8221;</p>
<p>The &#8220;inflated sense of their own importance&#8221; ties into the Ego thing alright, and serves to shield the power players from a more robust analysis.</p>
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		<title>By: Conor McCabe</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-new-middle-class-irelands-remarkable-rockets/#comment-43929</link>
		<author>Conor McCabe</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 14:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-new-middle-class-irelands-remarkable-rockets/#comment-43929</guid>
		<description>What you're saying, Hugh, is that McWilliams' analysis is good only so far in that it reveals how corporate types think. And that is what I'm saying as well. 

As an analysis of the power structures in Irish society, it is useless. furthermore, it is counter-productive, as it gives the impression that these consumer groupings reflect societal power structures. I mean, that's the whole idea behind his Generation Game, and "bono boomers." He asks people to spot themselves among these consumer groups, and by doing so shines a light away from the massive corruption and power-plays at the heart of Irish society. David Mcwilliams is to societal analysis what horoscopes are to the future. 

The thrust of this post has to do with the angle Mcwilliams is coming from, and how those PR and marketing consumer groupings are what most people think of when they think of societal analysis. I'm basing this on some of the comments my working-class posts have received over the past six months - and it was those comments which led me down the path of PR and marketing, and how those ideas have obscured the ropes that bind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you&#8217;re saying, Hugh, is that McWilliams&#8217; analysis is good only so far in that it reveals how corporate types think. And that is what I&#8217;m saying as well. </p>
<p>As an analysis of the power structures in Irish society, it is useless. furthermore, it is counter-productive, as it gives the impression that these consumer groupings reflect societal power structures. I mean, that&#8217;s the whole idea behind his Generation Game, and &#8220;bono boomers.&#8221; He asks people to spot themselves among these consumer groups, and by doing so shines a light away from the massive corruption and power-plays at the heart of Irish society. David Mcwilliams is to societal analysis what horoscopes are to the future. </p>
<p>The thrust of this post has to do with the angle Mcwilliams is coming from, and how those PR and marketing consumer groupings are what most people think of when they think of societal analysis. I&#8217;m basing this on some of the comments my working-class posts have received over the past six months - and it was those comments which led me down the path of PR and marketing, and how those ideas have obscured the ropes that bind.</p>
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		<title>By: Thriftcriminal</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-new-middle-class-irelands-remarkable-rockets/#comment-43927</link>
		<author>Thriftcriminal</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 13:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/11/06/the-new-middle-class-irelands-remarkable-rockets/#comment-43927</guid>
		<description>Curtis also refers to negative freedom as a concept, first put forth by Isaiah Berlin. In the everyday life this means that we are free to define ourselves within our society (with obvious restrictions relating to legal behaviour). This places a new onus upon us, we now need to define ourselves whereas in the past we were defined by class or job etc. This is great for the marketing world, they can present us with a dazzling array of options and we can purchase to our hearts content, efficient little consumers beavering away to create our own "unique brand". Reminds me of The Matrix in some ways. But I believe we actually do like to have someone else label us, just as David has done. I bet huge numbers of people have completed his little questionnaire on his website to see what classification he gives them, if only to disagree with it.  Perhaps a better solution is a healthy mix of positive freedom and negative freedom (although the obvious midpoint of zero freedom is possibly not the most apt phrase, perhaps neutral freedom), perhaps the overriding goal of ceaseless economic growth in an unfettered environment is not the most stable system and our goals and aspirations should become more diverse and sophisticated at an individual level (no I don't consider owning diverse array of designer clothing a goal, I mean with regard to our wider society). Lets remember what biology tells us about this kind of system: Lag. Log. Stationary. Decline. Fuck it, no, lets rush headlong towards our collective demise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curtis also refers to negative freedom as a concept, first put forth by Isaiah Berlin. In the everyday life this means that we are free to define ourselves within our society (with obvious restrictions relating to legal behaviour). This places a new onus upon us, we now need to define ourselves whereas in the past we were defined by class or job etc. This is great for the marketing world, they can present us with a dazzling array of options and we can purchase to our hearts content, efficient little consumers beavering away to create our own &#8220;unique brand&#8221;. Reminds me of The Matrix in some ways. But I believe we actually do like to have someone else label us, just as David has done. I bet huge numbers of people have completed his little questionnaire on his website to see what classification he gives them, if only to disagree with it.  Perhaps a better solution is a healthy mix of positive freedom and negative freedom (although the obvious midpoint of zero freedom is possibly not the most apt phrase, perhaps neutral freedom), perhaps the overriding goal of ceaseless economic growth in an unfettered environment is not the most stable system and our goals and aspirations should become more diverse and sophisticated at an individual level (no I don&#8217;t consider owning diverse array of designer clothing a goal, I mean with regard to our wider society). Lets remember what biology tells us about this kind of system: Lag. Log. Stationary. Decline. Fuck it, no, lets rush headlong towards our collective demise.</p>
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