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	<title>Comments on: REVERIES OF A SOLITARY WALKER: BLESSINGTON STREET BASIN</title>
	<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/20/reveries-of-a-solitary-walker-blessington-street-basin/</link>
	<description>It's a group blog. What more do you need to know?</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 09:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: 1790s</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/20/reveries-of-a-solitary-walker-blessington-street-basin/#comment-38737</link>
		<author>1790s</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/20/reveries-of-a-solitary-walker-blessington-street-basin/#comment-38737</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;1790s...&lt;/strong&gt;

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>1790s&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: sonofstan</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/20/reveries-of-a-solitary-walker-blessington-street-basin/#comment-27311</link>
		<author>sonofstan</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 23:08:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/20/reveries-of-a-solitary-walker-blessington-street-basin/#comment-27311</guid>
		<description>Copernicus, I think you have read more criticism of supposed shortcomings of irish society into my comments than has actually been there. The lack of fit between image and reality in terms of our cultural life was not to do with a contrast between the 'pretensions of the Dublin popualce and their actual buying habits' but between an image we have of what it means to be Irish and cultured and what it could mean in a society not in thrall to its  past. My point was that certain economic trends have been inimical to the kind of urbanism that might sustain such a culture - bookshops were only one example in the original comment; remember i was responding to Conor's original post- which you should read in conjunction with my response; they are conncted - not trying to start a fight of my own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Copernicus, I think you have read more criticism of supposed shortcomings of irish society into my comments than has actually been there. The lack of fit between image and reality in terms of our cultural life was not to do with a contrast between the &#8216;pretensions of the Dublin popualce and their actual buying habits&#8217; but between an image we have of what it means to be Irish and cultured and what it could mean in a society not in thrall to its  past. My point was that certain economic trends have been inimical to the kind of urbanism that might sustain such a culture - bookshops were only one example in the original comment; remember i was responding to Conor&#8217;s original post- which you should read in conjunction with my response; they are conncted - not trying to start a fight of my own.</p>
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		<title>By: copernicus</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/20/reveries-of-a-solitary-walker-blessington-street-basin/#comment-27287</link>
		<author>copernicus</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 19:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/20/reveries-of-a-solitary-walker-blessington-street-basin/#comment-27287</guid>
		<description>I meant I wouldn't comment on Conor's posts rather than on the blog per se.

sonofstan's comment about homogenization referred to a perceived "plague" of clothes shops (that's all there is in the city centre apparently) not the content of bookshop shelves.  The point he made was wildly oversated - it is not the case that only clothes shops can afford city centre rents - that's a problem generally restricted to shopping centres.  I saw a lease for a Dame St. restaurant for sale this year for 45k pa - a steal.  Its shopping centre equivalent in Limerick is about 250k. And bookshops don't need to set up on main thoroughfares like that.

The commercial property market is not the same as the residential property market - different zoning practices and use restriction apply for a start.  Commercial rents in town are reasonable away from Grafton and Henry Street AFAIK and at any rate most commercial leases for bookshops will have been signed long before the Celtic tigger took off.

As has been pointed out here, the antiquarian market has moved online.  And while it's nice to come across an interesting book in a second hand shop, no matter how many such shops there were in the city, their stock could never represent more than a miniscule fraction of all the books which have been in and are now out of print.

Changes in the Dublin book scene reflect international trends in publishing far more than the short-comings of Irish society.

I hardly think such an assertion is a charter for Harry Potter and McDonalds freedom fries.  But obviously others disagree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I meant I wouldn&#8217;t comment on Conor&#8217;s posts rather than on the blog per se.</p>
<p>sonofstan&#8217;s comment about homogenization referred to a perceived &#8220;plague&#8221; of clothes shops (that&#8217;s all there is in the city centre apparently) not the content of bookshop shelves.  The point he made was wildly oversated - it is not the case that only clothes shops can afford city centre rents - that&#8217;s a problem generally restricted to shopping centres.  I saw a lease for a Dame St. restaurant for sale this year for 45k pa - a steal.  Its shopping centre equivalent in Limerick is about 250k. And bookshops don&#8217;t need to set up on main thoroughfares like that.</p>
<p>The commercial property market is not the same as the residential property market - different zoning practices and use restriction apply for a start.  Commercial rents in town are reasonable away from Grafton and Henry Street AFAIK and at any rate most commercial leases for bookshops will have been signed long before the Celtic tigger took off.</p>
<p>As has been pointed out here, the antiquarian market has moved online.  And while it&#8217;s nice to come across an interesting book in a second hand shop, no matter how many such shops there were in the city, their stock could never represent more than a miniscule fraction of all the books which have been in and are now out of print.</p>
<p>Changes in the Dublin book scene reflect international trends in publishing far more than the short-comings of Irish society.</p>
<p>I hardly think such an assertion is a charter for Harry Potter and McDonalds freedom fries.  But obviously others disagree.</p>
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		<title>By: Dublin Opinion &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Bookselling Out</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/20/reveries-of-a-solitary-walker-blessington-street-basin/#comment-27251</link>
		<author>Dublin Opinion &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Bookselling Out</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/20/reveries-of-a-solitary-walker-blessington-street-basin/#comment-27251</guid>
		<description>[...] by this thread I went out to Blackrock and was just in time before Carraig Books closed for lunch. I got two [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] by this thread I went out to Blackrock and was just in time before Carraig Books closed for lunch. I got two [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Conor McCabe</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/20/reveries-of-a-solitary-walker-blessington-street-basin/#comment-27249</link>
		<author>Conor McCabe</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/20/reveries-of-a-solitary-walker-blessington-street-basin/#comment-27249</guid>
		<description>The Irish Senior Civil Service distrust  of local government goes back to the 1920s and the disbandment of local councils deemed inefficient or undemocratic by the Free State. This usually meant Sinn Séin controlled councils, such as in Kerry. By the 1930s this paractise had been put into legislation with the establishement of the county managers, enforced again in the 1940s. 

Post-colonialists would argue that all the Free State did was embrace a Dublin Castle view of Ireland as full of dragons, not to be trusted, and carried on without even drawing breath. You cant give Paddy - sorry, local councils, -  democratic authority 'cos you won't know what they might do with it. Best to keep all decisions centralised. What Paddy doesn't realise, as Winston Churchill once said, is that he's part of an Empire. and what these bloody councils don't realise is that they're part of a State. The Irish Free State: Dublin Castle with a fada.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Irish Senior Civil Service distrust  of local government goes back to the 1920s and the disbandment of local councils deemed inefficient or undemocratic by the Free State. This usually meant Sinn Séin controlled councils, such as in Kerry. By the 1930s this paractise had been put into legislation with the establishement of the county managers, enforced again in the 1940s. </p>
<p>Post-colonialists would argue that all the Free State did was embrace a Dublin Castle view of Ireland as full of dragons, not to be trusted, and carried on without even drawing breath. You cant give Paddy - sorry, local councils, -  democratic authority &#8216;cos you won&#8217;t know what they might do with it. Best to keep all decisions centralised. What Paddy doesn&#8217;t realise, as Winston Churchill once said, is that he&#8217;s part of an Empire. and what these bloody councils don&#8217;t realise is that they&#8217;re part of a State. The Irish Free State: Dublin Castle with a fada.</p>
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		<title>By: Donagh</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/20/reveries-of-a-solitary-walker-blessington-street-basin/#comment-27247</link>
		<author>Donagh</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:52:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/20/reveries-of-a-solitary-walker-blessington-street-basin/#comment-27247</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; So I won’t make any more.&lt;/i&gt;
Well, from a personal point of view I'm sorry to hear that. I've been reading your stuff on Midnight Court and numerous other blogs Copernicus, for a good while now and often agree with your viewpoint. So for you to decide to no longer comment here is a pity. 

There is a danger in threads for comments to veer close to personal attacks. When things do get personal then that is contemptible and isn't tolerated here. 

I'm not going to defend any of the comments above. That is up to the people who made them. However, reading Conor's comment I don't think that it was so personal to be considered offensive. Cheap point scoring maybe, but for a start he doesn't know you at all, so he was just reacting to what he perceived to be your defense of the larger bookshop chains. That's how I read it, Conor might say different. I don't want this to spiral into a 'you said this/I said that' thread.  

I hope to hell that dissent is not met with chippy and irrelevant straw men. For a start, I'd like to see more people adding comments and for different and dissenting view points to join in. I don't think it was in this case. 

However, if you're not going to comment again, your not, and nothing else can be done. 

The rest of this comment is going to appear as a post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> So I won’t make any more.</i><br />
Well, from a personal point of view I&#8217;m sorry to hear that. I&#8217;ve been reading your stuff on Midnight Court and numerous other blogs Copernicus, for a good while now and often agree with your viewpoint. So for you to decide to no longer comment here is a pity. </p>
<p>There is a danger in threads for comments to veer close to personal attacks. When things do get personal then that is contemptible and isn&#8217;t tolerated here. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not going to defend any of the comments above. That is up to the people who made them. However, reading Conor&#8217;s comment I don&#8217;t think that it was so personal to be considered offensive. Cheap point scoring maybe, but for a start he doesn&#8217;t know you at all, so he was just reacting to what he perceived to be your defense of the larger bookshop chains. That&#8217;s how I read it, Conor might say different. I don&#8217;t want this to spiral into a &#8216;you said this/I said that&#8217; thread.  </p>
<p>I hope to hell that dissent is not met with chippy and irrelevant straw men. For a start, I&#8217;d like to see more people adding comments and for different and dissenting view points to join in. I don&#8217;t think it was in this case. </p>
<p>However, if you&#8217;re not going to comment again, your not, and nothing else can be done. </p>
<p>The rest of this comment is going to appear as a post.</p>
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		<title>By: sonofstan</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/20/reveries-of-a-solitary-walker-blessington-street-basin/#comment-27226</link>
		<author>sonofstan</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/20/reveries-of-a-solitary-walker-blessington-street-basin/#comment-27226</guid>
		<description>I mentioned high rents as a factor in the homogenisation of the city centre in my first comment - 3rd para.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mentioned high rents as a factor in the homogenisation of the city centre in my first comment - 3rd para.</p>
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		<title>By: copernicus</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/20/reveries-of-a-solitary-walker-blessington-street-basin/#comment-27224</link>
		<author>copernicus</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/20/reveries-of-a-solitary-walker-blessington-street-basin/#comment-27224</guid>
		<description>sonofstan's initial comment - as opposed to his hyperbole about city centre commercial rents (nonsense, by the way, but then why bother to query that despite the evidence of your own eyes rather than make a nasty, stupid and contemptuous comment about my taste - which you obviously know nothing about but feel very qualified to comment on) drew a very ironic - and frankly sarcastic - comparison between the pretensions of the Dublin populace and their actual buying habits.

One of the reasons I've refrained from commenting on posts here has been a suspicion that any dissent would be met with chippy and irrelevant straw men.  I assumed it would be reasonable to point out that the analysis of the bookshop scene in Dublin is at least debatable and that therefore hysterical prognostications were somewhat out of place.  Alas, it seems that rather than engage the points, you'd rather pretend I only like McDonalds and Harry Potter leaving you free to dismiss my contributions.  So I won't make any more.

Sonofstan's "point" about city centre rents (which you say didn't appear til comment 13) was certainly not remotely clear from his hyperbolic initial contribution.  My reply was reasonable in the circumstances.  Conor's dismissiveness was contemptible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sonofstan&#8217;s initial comment - as opposed to his hyperbole about city centre commercial rents (nonsense, by the way, but then why bother to query that despite the evidence of your own eyes rather than make a nasty, stupid and contemptuous comment about my taste - which you obviously know nothing about but feel very qualified to comment on) drew a very ironic - and frankly sarcastic - comparison between the pretensions of the Dublin populace and their actual buying habits.</p>
<p>One of the reasons I&#8217;ve refrained from commenting on posts here has been a suspicion that any dissent would be met with chippy and irrelevant straw men.  I assumed it would be reasonable to point out that the analysis of the bookshop scene in Dublin is at least debatable and that therefore hysterical prognostications were somewhat out of place.  Alas, it seems that rather than engage the points, you&#8217;d rather pretend I only like McDonalds and Harry Potter leaving you free to dismiss my contributions.  So I won&#8217;t make any more.</p>
<p>Sonofstan&#8217;s &#8220;point&#8221; about city centre rents (which you say didn&#8217;t appear til comment 13) was certainly not remotely clear from his hyperbolic initial contribution.  My reply was reasonable in the circumstances.  Conor&#8217;s dismissiveness was contemptible.</p>
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		<title>By: sonofstan</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/20/reveries-of-a-solitary-walker-blessington-street-basin/#comment-27223</link>
		<author>sonofstan</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:31:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/20/reveries-of-a-solitary-walker-blessington-street-basin/#comment-27223</guid>
		<description>'Pay your Rates-ah'..... (a Mark Smithism I find myself roaring at inapprapriate times)
Interesting that Irish central govt. seems to have inherited Tory England's distrust of strong local government - FF afraid that a successful and popular Labour (or left alliance of some kind) city council in Dublin would be a springboard for national power?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Pay your Rates-ah&#8217;&#8230;.. (a Mark Smithism I find myself roaring at inapprapriate times)<br />
Interesting that Irish central govt. seems to have inherited Tory England&#8217;s distrust of strong local government - FF afraid that a successful and popular Labour (or left alliance of some kind) city council in Dublin would be a springboard for national power?</p>
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		<title>By: Conor McCabe</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/20/reveries-of-a-solitary-walker-blessington-street-basin/#comment-27222</link>
		<author>Conor McCabe</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/20/reveries-of-a-solitary-walker-blessington-street-basin/#comment-27222</guid>
		<description>Would you believe I'm just about to head down to the library now? I agree, Dublin city library is quite a decent service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would you believe I&#8217;m just about to head down to the library now? I agree, Dublin city library is quite a decent service.</p>
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