Comments on: RABBITTE TO SELL LABOUR FOR A BUCKET OF BLUE BEANS http://dublinopinion.com/2007/06/07/rabbitte-to-sell-labour-for-a-bucket-of-blue-beans/ It's a group blog. What more do you need to know? Fri, 12 Mar 2010 00:05:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 By: Conor McCabe http://dublinopinion.com/2007/06/07/rabbitte-to-sell-labour-for-a-bucket-of-blue-beans/#comment-21351 Conor McCabe Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:32:27 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/06/07/rabbitte-to-sell-labour-for-a-bucket-of-blue-beans/#comment-21351 I'm not blaming FG for a poor labour result. I'm blaming labour for the poor labour result. Part of that was due to the Mullingar accord. It should never have happened. But that's not the fault of FG, that's the fault of Labour. I've been arguing for Labour to go out and fight for seats since day one. and that includes taking seats from FG, especially in Dublin. But yeah, it's true. Labour's problems are not done to cute-hoor Irish politics, not down to funding issues, not down to the Bertie facotr - it's down to the fact that they have a weak party machine. spot on. I’m not blaming FG for a poor labour result. I’m blaming labour for the poor labour result. Part of that was due to the Mullingar accord. It should never have happened. But that’s not the fault of FG, that’s the fault of Labour. I’ve been arguing for Labour to go out and fight for seats since day one. and that includes taking seats from FG, especially in Dublin.
But yeah, it’s true. Labour’s problems are not done to cute-hoor Irish politics, not down to funding issues, not down to the Bertie facotr - it’s down to the fact that they have a weak party machine. spot on.

]]> By: Patrick http://dublinopinion.com/2007/06/07/rabbitte-to-sell-labour-for-a-bucket-of-blue-beans/#comment-21344 Patrick Tue, 12 Jun 2007 22:57:00 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/06/07/rabbitte-to-sell-labour-for-a-bucket-of-blue-beans/#comment-21344 As a Fine Gael supporter I would not want a merger with Labour and am disappointed at the way labour people are blaming FG for a poor Labour result. You only lost one seat and were helped by our transfers. In 2002 when we lost 23 seats you did not gain a single seat. Grow up and go out and fight for your seats. It's easy to blame others when you cant face up to facts. FG did everything it could to help Labour win seats, we didn't bank on labour having such a week machine. As a Fine Gael supporter I would not want a merger with Labour and am disappointed at the way labour people are blaming FG for a poor Labour result.

You only lost one seat and were helped by our transfers. In 2002 when we lost 23 seats you did not gain a single seat. Grow up and go out and fight for your seats. It’s easy to blame others when you cant face up to facts.

FG did everything it could to help Labour win seats, we didn’t bank on labour having such a week machine.

]]> By: WorldbyStorm http://dublinopinion.com/2007/06/07/rabbitte-to-sell-labour-for-a-bucket-of-blue-beans/#comment-21240 WorldbyStorm Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:20:13 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/06/07/rabbitte-to-sell-labour-for-a-bucket-of-blue-beans/#comment-21240 Interesting. Doesn't entirely surprise me... Interesting. Doesn’t entirely surprise me…

]]> By: Conor McCabe http://dublinopinion.com/2007/06/07/rabbitte-to-sell-labour-for-a-bucket-of-blue-beans/#comment-21203 Conor McCabe Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:23:37 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/06/07/rabbitte-to-sell-labour-for-a-bucket-of-blue-beans/#comment-21203 Hi worldbystorm, I was away the weekend so only got to the internet today. The rumour came from a senior member of the Labour parliamentary party. could be just simple old shit-stirring, but there you go! Hi worldbystorm, I was away the weekend so only got to the internet today. The rumour came from a senior member of the Labour parliamentary party. could be just simple old shit-stirring, but there you go!

]]> By: WorldbyStorm http://dublinopinion.com/2007/06/07/rabbitte-to-sell-labour-for-a-bucket-of-blue-beans/#comment-21139 WorldbyStorm Sun, 10 Jun 2007 13:38:46 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/06/07/rabbitte-to-sell-labour-for-a-bucket-of-blue-beans/#comment-21139 I mean, of course, Howlin... Apologies. I mean, of course, Howlin… Apologies.

]]> By: WorldbyStorm http://dublinopinion.com/2007/06/07/rabbitte-to-sell-labour-for-a-bucket-of-blue-beans/#comment-21138 WorldbyStorm Sun, 10 Jun 2007 13:38:11 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/06/07/rabbitte-to-sell-labour-for-a-bucket-of-blue-beans/#comment-21138 Listening to Brendan Howling on the RTE news at 1 today was quite heartening. Clearly he is not one to sell the pass. Listening to Brendan Howling on the RTE news at 1 today was quite heartening. Clearly he is not one to sell the pass.

]]> By: thepillionpassenger http://dublinopinion.com/2007/06/07/rabbitte-to-sell-labour-for-a-bucket-of-blue-beans/#comment-20960 thepillionpassenger Sat, 09 Jun 2007 07:48:46 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/06/07/rabbitte-to-sell-labour-for-a-bucket-of-blue-beans/#comment-20960 Labour just don't have a party machine (never really did) or a clear direction (sometimes it did but just for a short time). Pat Rabitte's a decent politician, witty and genuine if a bit smug. But I just think Labour target FF/FG type voters when they can offer a lot more to SF/Green type voters. They don't work hard enough for the disadvantaged. They don't highlight than one in ten Irish kids live in poverty. All the time they have to hold back so they can still appeal to FF/FG post-election. It's hard for them too, I'll admit, because the things I've outlined above are not what people who vote care about. Sometimes you've got to take a risk - it's a joke that two parties that are essentially the same take 75% of the seats. Labour just don’t have a party machine (never really did) or a clear direction (sometimes it did but just for a short time). Pat Rabitte’s a decent politician, witty and genuine if a bit smug. But I just think Labour target FF/FG type voters when they can offer a lot more to SF/Green type voters. They don’t work hard enough for the disadvantaged. They don’t highlight than one in ten Irish kids live in poverty. All the time they have to hold back so they can still appeal to FF/FG post-election. It’s hard for them too, I’ll admit, because the things I’ve outlined above are not what people who vote care about. Sometimes you’ve got to take a risk - it’s a joke that two parties that are essentially the same take 75% of the seats.

]]> By: Nuala Nolan http://dublinopinion.com/2007/06/07/rabbitte-to-sell-labour-for-a-bucket-of-blue-beans/#comment-20910 Nuala Nolan Fri, 08 Jun 2007 20:42:50 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/06/07/rabbitte-to-sell-labour-for-a-bucket-of-blue-beans/#comment-20910 I think that the problem with the Labour Party is that it does not have enough "cute whore" politicians. In Ireland dishonesty or the hint of dishonesty in not a hindrance to getting elected. The Labour Party has very serious honest politicians but most people want "personalities" and not saviours. If people were asked if they though Enda Kenny was an honest man most would have answered "Yes, but he is boring". FF seem to have got the right mix of characters when it comes TDs. They pick a guy who is popular in business, sport or both. This means the guy is already worth 3,000 first preferences, if he has a relation who has been successful in politics this is worth another 2,000 votes. If he is a friendly guy who has the gift of not offending sensitive voters at the door he will pick up a few another thousand votes in transfers. Finally having the charm to convenience voters that he can deliver what ever is needed for his area will see him through the doors of Leinster House. Who said Irish Politics was about running the country, stupid, its about getting elected and re-elected. The reason Labour have failed to gain seats is that they don't follow this proven formula. I think that the problem with the Labour Party is that it does not have enough “cute whore” politicians. In Ireland dishonesty or the hint of dishonesty in not a hindrance to getting elected. The Labour Party has very serious honest politicians but most people want “personalities” and not saviours.
If people were asked if they though Enda Kenny was an honest man most would have answered “Yes, but he is boring”. FF seem to have got the right mix of characters when it comes TDs.
They pick a guy who is popular in business, sport or both. This means the guy is already worth 3,000 first preferences, if he has a relation who has been successful in politics this is worth another 2,000 votes. If he is a friendly guy who has the gift of not offending sensitive voters at the door he will pick up a few another thousand votes in transfers. Finally having the charm to convenience voters that he can deliver what ever is needed for his area will see him through the doors of Leinster House.
Who said Irish Politics was about running the country, stupid, its about getting elected and re-elected. The reason Labour have failed to gain seats is that they don’t follow this proven formula.

]]> By: Whatever happens next…the Green Party and Fianna Fáil « The Cedar Lounge Revolution http://dublinopinion.com/2007/06/07/rabbitte-to-sell-labour-for-a-bucket-of-blue-beans/#comment-20894 Whatever happens next…the Green Party and Fianna Fáil « The Cedar Lounge Revolution Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:26:41 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/06/07/rabbitte-to-sell-labour-for-a-bucket-of-blue-beans/#comment-20894 [...] Perhaps they await the knock on the door from Bertie Ahern. Or perhaps they’ve given up. Conor, over at Dublin Opinion, notes a rumour that there is a long term plan for a merger of Labour with [...] […] Perhaps they await the knock on the door from Bertie Ahern. Or perhaps they’ve given up. Conor, over at Dublin Opinion, notes a rumour that there is a long term plan for a merger of Labour with […]

]]> By: WorldbyStorm http://dublinopinion.com/2007/06/07/rabbitte-to-sell-labour-for-a-bucket-of-blue-beans/#comment-20828 WorldbyStorm Fri, 08 Jun 2007 07:48:05 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/06/07/rabbitte-to-sell-labour-for-a-bucket-of-blue-beans/#comment-20828 I'm sure it is simply a rumour. The history since 1989 has demonstrated that mergers end up less than the sum of their parts. But, if Rabbitte etc really believed this then their analysis would be even worse than it currently seems. Even the mild social democracy of Labour would find little to comfort it in FG. They come from such disparate traditions, and visceral loathing of SF is simply not going to work asa glue, particularly since SF in five years will be probably without Adams and/or remain as diminished as now. I think one of the most intriguing aspects of Mullingar was the way in which it demonstrated a credulity on the part of some (by no means all) Labour members when it came to the abilities of Rabitte and the former WP/DL cohort. These have been, as I hope people now see, wildly overstated. Rabbitte etc are generally not bad human beings, but some seem to have regarded them as the most 'cunning, devious...' etc, etc. But the paucity of ambition is what really irks me. Conor, you're right. Labour should have been pitching to become the voice of the left, not a subsidiary voice in an FG led coalition. And when one considers that the seat numbers FG had entering the election were approx what Labour had at its high point, why not play on that? I’m sure it is simply a rumour. The history since 1989 has demonstrated that mergers end up less than the sum of their parts. But, if Rabbitte etc really believed this then their analysis would be even worse than it currently seems. Even the mild social democracy of Labour would find little to comfort it in FG. They come from such disparate traditions, and visceral loathing of SF is simply not going to work asa glue, particularly since SF in five years will be probably without Adams and/or remain as diminished as now.

I think one of the most intriguing aspects of Mullingar was the way in which it demonstrated a credulity on the part of some (by no means all) Labour members when it came to the abilities of Rabitte and the former WP/DL cohort. These have been, as I hope people now see, wildly overstated. Rabbitte etc are generally not bad human beings, but some seem to have regarded them as the most ‘cunning, devious…’ etc, etc.

But the paucity of ambition is what really irks me. Conor, you’re right. Labour should have been pitching to become the voice of the left, not a subsidiary voice in an FG led coalition. And when one considers that the seat numbers FG had entering the election were approx what Labour had at its high point, why not play on that?

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