Ditching the Diaspora
Apr 30th, 2007 by Donagh
Seanachie, of the superlative Pleasures of Underachievement highlights something that perhaps should be getting as much prominence as the Weekend vote issue but has, so far, managed to go completely under the electoral radar.
There are still no facilities for Irish citizens living outside the island of Ireland to vote. Seanachie, who lives in Paris, explains that due to other commitments he can’t make it across for May 24th, as he had in 2002.
But, he rightly argues:
“I shouldn’t have to return home. Depriving tens of thousands of other Irish people living abroad of a vote is a grave violation of democratic rights and is something that shocks foreign friends of mine when I inform them of it.”
Considering Bertie, in his harried and hurried ‘ask no questions’ press conference on Sunday, extolled the simple virtue of Irish people getting out to vote an inability to come into line with other European democracies seems, well, feckless.
Seanachie considers it an infringement of his democratic rights:
“I may have a touchingly old-fashioned belief in the power of one man, one vote but if it’s a delusion, it’s a comforting one. Will The Irish Times, so taken with the stirring example of democracy at work in the French Presidential elections, be writing an editorial deploring this scandalous lacuna in the democratic process closer to home?”
Well, there’s 25 days to go so they have plenty of editorial opportunities to wax indignant. It’s unlikely they will, however, even though its an issue that gained prominence in previous elections.
Glór an Deoraà - Irish Emigrants Voice, an Emigrant association based in Britain tried to debate the issue in the late 90’s. One of the arguments against allowing the Diaspora to vote is that they are out of touch with the issues. So, in an experiment to see if the voting patterns varied significantly for ex-pat voters they conducted an experiment in the 1997 Irish Presidential election. By encouraging Irish people abroad to express their preferences for each of the candidates on their website they found that the pattern of the voting was the same as the national vote.
Now this experimental mock vote is not scientific and is difficult to verify, but it shows that a vigorous attempt to address the issue.
Glór an Deoraà response to the Department of the Environment’s “Representation of emigrants in Seanad Eireann”, which dates from 1996, make interesting reading as it addresses many points around the debate, such as the potential size of the electorate.
“Various figures have been put forward in relation to the Irish abroad. The Department of the Environment have calculated that up to 900,000 could be eligible to vote, which equates to 24% of the overall Irish population, or 20.83% of the voting population. This is quite obviously nonsense, and we enclose the net migration figures for the past twenty years.[…]
A realistic assessment of the emigrant vote would be closer to 50,000, and this would involve an issue that interests the electorate such as a referendum or Dáil election.”
Again, this is an old article. It would be interesting to find out what the current CSO estimates are for the number of Irish living abroad.
In the survey conducted by the Department of Psychiatry, MFRC Medical College of Wisconsin, which Glór an Deoraà refer to, the writers point to a certain ambivalence regarding the right to vote among the Irish abroad. But to take the survey as a guide they are certainly more in favour of it than not.
“We asked our respondents if they believed that people born in Ireland but living abroad should have the right to vote in Irish elections. Whilst 46% responded no, 41% responded yes, another 12% responding yes, but only with provisions. This certainly seems to be a contentious issue, underscored by the fact that only 4 respondents did not express an opinion.â€
I could find no other details about the debate online but if anyone else knows anything please let us know.
Its interesting to note where this debate ended. According to the About page on the Glór an Deoraà website, the organisation had lobbied politicians throughout the Nineties. Although the Fine Gael/Labour Government roadblocked the issue the lobby was approached by Fianna Fail prior to the 1997 Election.
We supplied them with all the relevant information sought, including technical and legal advice.
When the general election of spring ‘97 was announced, the various parties announced proposals on the issues of the day. Most notable was Fianna Fail’s policy document, in which they proposed to introduce emigrant voting rights by the year 2000 . However, when the new Govt was formed in June ‘97 (Fianna Fail and the Progressive Democrats) they published a document called ‘An Action Programme for the Millennium’ and surprise, surprise, no mention of emigrant voting rights for the Irish abroad. As we write, the Minister of the Environments office has been in contact with us twice in which they have stated ‘ The minister intends to review the issue of votes for emigrants as soon as possible and will be in contact with you to arrange a meeting as part of that process’
We will update you as soon as news is forthcoming.
That was in 1997. That Government is still in power.
I wouldn’t have any problem with Irish people living abroad sending home a vote. This ‘out of touch with the issues’ thing is plainly anti-democratic. Who has the right to tell anybody what ‘issues’ are? The issues are what you think they are - whether it be that collapsed wall at the end of your street or US troops in Shannon.
Even if we accept it as a valid argument, it immediately collapses under the weight of media available to people living anywhere in the developed world.
The French were queuing past dinner time outside their Dublin embassy. They embarrass us. Not by the speed of which they count their votes, but by the openess, participation and variety of their politics.
Excellent post, and far more thorough than my own. I can understand that voting in an Irish election will cease to have pertinence after a certain period of time for many long-term expats but as long as they cannot vote in their adopted countries, the right to vote should be still made available. France and the US allow their citizens to vote for decades after they have emigrated. Facilitating emigrants who have been gone a much shorter time should be incumbent on the Irish legislature; and while we’re at it non-nationals (or at least those from other EU states) should also be allowed to vote if they have lived, say, five years in Ireland. If the Poles or the Romanians feel inclined to vote Fianna Fáil, so be it, they do, pace Dev, have the right to do wrong. Mise le meas, as the doorstepping leaflets say.
Great article. It will be interesting to see if the Irish Times - or indeed anyone else in the mainstream - picks up on the expat vote issue.
Thanks people. I appreciate that. I’m sure there are historical reasons why countries like France allow the ex-pat vote. Perhaps its a legacy of colonial times, where the administrators and settlers in the new land would definitely have an interest in who was ultimately controlling their destiny, but colonialism wained as democracy triumphed, so perhaps that’s not the reason why France et al maintain the ex-pat vote. I suspect the reason for the US long distance vote is to facilitate US employees working in Corporations that have gone truely global.
There seems to be a reaction against this from some ex-pats, judging from the comments on IE. They’re saying that those who have left the old sod behind shouldn’t be allowed to control things in their absense, especially as they don’t pay taxes or gain the benefits/misfortunes of living here.
But the way of the modern world is very different now, as you own experience Seanachie, testifies. What about the people who are working abroad for relatively short periods of time (one or two years), or make regular trips back to Ireland. Anyone living on the continent probably comes back twice a year. What about those working in Saudi Arabia or The United Arab Emirates. They’re not going to live there forever. There should be some mechanism to provide for this.
The main issue in this though seems to be, as you mention again Seanachie, that the majority of non-nationals aren’t eligable to vote for a goodly long time. Considering that they pay tax and the Government controls all the public service upon which they rely they should be allowed to have a say.
Am concerned by the issue, but must say I am a bit bemused when the French innocently ask me ‘don’t the Irish abroad vote in your elections?’ They’re again taking it for granted that every country in the world has the luxury to be French. I had always assumed we didn’t get to vote because of our being a nation (until recently) of mass EMigration and that the electorate abroad would be disproportionately large. I would also assume that the best people to vote in a country’s election would be those actually making a contribution to the country (through tax/labour for ex. - the former excluding half of the Soldiers of Destiny’s front bench, obviously). Those Poles currently there, again, should have more of a say than the likes of me that shagged off out of the place.
Next time the French condescend towards you about voting rights in Ireland, ask them about the hundreds of thousands of Maghrebins they brought in to serve as cheap labour during their ‘trentaines glorieuses’ that have never had the right to vote in anything since…
PS Good article all the same Seanachie - and follow-up from Donagh likewise
Thanks Seán. From the comments on Irish Election I think that many of those who have left feel the same way, that ex-pats have no direct involvement in the country and receive no benefits or penalties for voting, therefore there is no need for them to vote.
I think though that a small measure of voting rights can be allowed for those who happen to be out of the country for a year or two, considering that a government could well last 5 years, although prior to the last decade that was rarely the case.
However, the main thing seems to be the unwillingness to extend the vote to those from new EU countries who have come into the country. I have seen no debate about this at all, so it was worth bringing it up here and on IE for that reason alone.
The real problem here is that it’s not just France and the US that allow their expats to vote - it’s that everyone else does as well. There are nearly 100 countries that allow emigrants the right to vote. It’s something the rest of the world takes for granted - Ireland’s policy is really unusual, and becoming more so.
I don’t think the issue of whether non-citizen immigrants should be allowed to vote is in competition with the idea of emigrant voting rights (although Ireland’s stance on this is much less unusual!). Voting rights for non-citizen immigrants are also becoming more common internationally - although there aren’t half as many countries allowing this.
It’s simply a recognition of the way globalisation and increased migration are changing our ideas of political representation.
The real problem here is that it’s not just France and the US that allow their expats to vote - it’s that everyone else does as well. There are nearly 100 countries that allow emigrants the right to vote. It’s something the rest of the world takes for granted - Ireland’s policy is really unusual, and becoming more so.
The case of the recent Polish elections proved this, I think. There was lots of coverage asking how the Polish diaspora in Ireland would vote. It seemed absurd that we were talking about how the Polish would vote while resident in Ireland, while the Irish abroad don’t have the same option, yet it was never picked up on, that I could see anyway.
I don’t think the issue of whether non-citizen immigrants should be allowed to vote is in competition with the idea of emigrant voting rights (although Ireland’s stance on this is much less unusual!). Voting rights for non-citizen immigrants are also becoming more common internationally - although there aren’t half as many countries allowing this.
It’s interesting too about how immigrants tend to vote in their host country, once they are eligable. I read a very interesting article recently which pointed out how immigrant communities in Germany and France have a tendency to vote for parties on the Left, because generally it is these parties who are willing to advocate for them. Because this is well known internationally, you’d imagine that the Irish Labour Party, for example, would start lobbying to have voting rights extended to immigrant communities. However, immigrants are eligable to vote in the local elections, and because they’ve a tendency to be based in certain areas around the country such as North and West Dublin there’s every reason to assume that they will become a significant voting block. Now of course that could mean that in two years time we could see a number of independent Polish and Lithuanian councillors, but its interesting, although I’m going completely off the point.
It’s simply a recognition of the way globalisation and increased migration are changing our ideas of political representation.
Yes. Maybe I wasn’t going off the point after all.